Love, Lives and Angelus – Buffy Season 2 Retrospective

Introduction

Welcome to our Buffy Season 2 retrospective on OH!CAST, your island gateway to geek culture. In this episode, we dive deep into one of the most beloved seasons of Buffy, exploring its unforgettable villains, standout episodes, and the moments that still spark debate among fans decades later. Whether you’re a long‑time Buffy devotee or a newcomer discovering Sunnydale for the first time, this retrospective offers fresh insights, lively discussion, and plenty of nostalgia.

Why Season 2 Matters

Season 2 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer is often cited as the point where the show truly found its footing. Building on the foundations of Season 1, it introduced darker themes, more complex character arcs, and some of the most iconic villains in television history. From the arrival of Spike and Drusilla to the heartbreaking transformation of Angel into Angelus, Season 2 elevated Buffy from cult favorite to pop‑culture phenomenon.

For fans searching for Buffy Season 2 retrospective, this retrospective highlights why the season remains a cornerstone of the series.

Fan‑Favourite Episodes

Our panel agreed on several standout episodes that define Season 2:

• School Hard – The electrifying entrance of Spike, crashing through the Sunnydale sign and declaring “Home sweet home,” remains one of the most iconic character introductions in TV history. This episode blends action, humor, and menace, setting the tone for the season’s escalating stakes.

• Halloween – A fan‑favorite for its playful premise, this episode sees the Scoobies transformed into their costumes thanks to Ethan Rayne’s chaos magic. It’s atmospheric, immersive, and introduces the darker side of Giles with the first mention of “Ripper.”

• Passion – Perhaps the most emotionally devastating episode of the season, “Passion” delivers a shocking twist with the death of Jenny Calendar. It marks Buffy’s transition into more mature storytelling, tackling grief, betrayal, and the consequences of love gone wrong.

These episodes showcase the range of Season 2, from campy fun to gut‑wrenching drama.

The Villains of Season 2

No Buffy retrospective is complete without celebrating its villains. Season 2 introduced some of the most memorable antagonists in the Buffyverse:

• Spike and Drusilla – Charismatic, chaotic, and deeply unsettling, this vampiric duo brought a gothic flair to Sunnydale. Spike’s swagger and Drusilla’s eerie, doll‑obsessed madness made them instant fan favorites.

• Angelus – The transformation of Angel into Angelus after losing his soul remains one of the most shocking twists in Buffy history. His cruelty and psychological torment of Buffy and her friends elevated the stakes and cemented him as one of the show’s greatest villains.

• Ethan Rayne – A recurring agent of chaos, Ethan’s appearances added unpredictability and expanded the lore of Giles’ mysterious past. His role in “Halloween” and later episodes made him a fascinating side character.

Season 2’s villains weren’t just obstacles—they were catalysts for character growth and emotional depth.

Controversial Episodes and Missteps

While Season 2 is beloved, it isn’t without flaws. Our retrospective also examines episodes that missed the mark:

• Go Fish – Widely criticized for its uncomfortable themes and logical gaps, this episode is often considered one of the weakest in the series.

• Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered – Xander’s love spell gone wrong highlights problematic self‑insert storytelling and objectification of women, sparking debate among fans.

• Reptile Boy, Inca Mummy Girl, and Some Assembly Required – These monster‑of‑the‑week episodes recycle tropes about possession and belonging, offering little in terms of originality or emotional resonance.

By acknowledging these missteps, we highlight how Buffy balanced brilliance with occasional filler, a hallmark of long‑running genre shows.

Legacy of Season 2

Season 2 remains a turning point in Buffy’s legacy. It introduced enduring characters, deepened the mythology, and proved that a supernatural teen drama could tackle mature themes with nuance. For SEO‑friendly searches like Buffy Season 2 retrospective podcast, Buffy villains analysis, and Buffy favorite episodes, this discussion provides a comprehensive look at why Season 2 continues to resonate with audiences worldwide.

Conclusion

Our Buffy Season 2 retrospective celebrates the highs, critiques the lows, and honors the emotional impact of this landmark season. From Spike’s unforgettable entrance to the heartbreak of “Passion,” Season 2 exemplifies why Buffy the Vampire Slayer remains a cultural touchstone.

 

Full Transcript Outline (Quick Jumps)

00:00 Welcome to the Buffy Deep Dive

01:34 Favorite Episodes of Season 2

06:00 Exploring Iconic Characters and Entrances

11:19 The Impact of Passion and Emotional Themes

13:40 Critiquing the Less Favorable Episodes

21:43 Self-Insertions and Character Development

25:56 Objectification and Character Development

28:49 Celebrating Sidekicks: Cordelia Chase

33:36 Introducing Kendra: The New Slayer

36:17 The Complexity of Loss in Season Two

37:16 Principal Snyder: The Villain in Disguise

41:07 Spike and Drusilla: Chaos and Romance

47:57 Angelus: The Dark Transformation

53:54 Giles: The Supportive Mentor

54:55 The Torture of Breadcrumbing

55:45 Angelus and Self-Destruction

56:59 Giles’ Journey Through Loss

58:26 The Impact of Jenny’s Death

59:39 Buffy’s Responsibility as a Slayer

01:01:03 Willow’s Transformation

01:02:13 The Emotional Weight of Season Two

01:03:49 Buffy’s Coming Out Metaphor

01:05:06 The Consequences of Sacrifice

01:07:12 Ranking Season Two

01:07:23 Behind the Scenes Insights

01:09:42 The Heartbreak of Season Two

01:13:25 The Legacy of Spike

01:16:49 Final Thoughts on Season Two

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Cal Macdonald (00:01.139)
And hello everyone, welcome back to OKAST, your island gateway to all things geek. I’m the main host, but I’m quickly going to disappear and breed in the shadows like a certain member of the cast of this show we’re going to talk about and hand over to our host for tonight, Rhianna, take it away.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (00:23.326)
lovely all to see you again here for our Buffy deep dive on Ocast. Today I have with me our wonderful Scoobies, Graham our watcher and Elena our mummy girl for tonight. Obviously we are going with names that are reflective of Buffy season 2.

Season two is where we are at. Season one was last time, season two tonight. It’s very exciting stuff. So we’ll probably roughly follow the same way that we did last time. We were looking at our favourite little bits, our favourite little nods, our favourite little snippets and clippets all the way through. Also our least favourites and the things that we would do differently if we were doing it all again. And obviously tonight we would just really love to get into the villains and the sidekicks and the co-

characters because there are some absolute corkers in season 2. I believe we’re all in firm agreement on that. Season 2 is well up there on my my list of favourite Buffy seasons so let’s let’s take it away. would like to start by saying favourite episodes. Graham favourite episodes go for it.

Graeme (01:36.751)
Favourite episode is Skullhard. By far.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (01:39.872)
Yes! Yes! yes! Solid! I tonight was gonna be a good one. Give us- give us all the reasons why. Because I don’t think there’s a single reason why not.

Graeme (01:50.339)
all the reasons why. So straight from the start you have absolutely fantastic bit of Principal Snyder. Before we get to the big reveal of the Grand Entrance, you’ve got Principal Snyder where he’s having the conversation with, is it Sheila her name is? And Buffy.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:53.129)
haha

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (02:11.874)
Thank

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (02:16.33)
Yes and he says think of me as, some people think of your principal as your pal but consider me your judge jury and executioner.

Graeme (02:21.688)
Yep. You’re George Stearney in Executioner. That’s exactly it. I have that line written down in front of me.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (02:25.031)
Hahaha.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (02:28.451)
Amazing! Yeah, it’s… What an intro. What an intro.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (02:28.83)
Ha ha.

Graeme (02:29.572)
You

Yeah. And I actually think Sheila’s someone that you could have a whole spin-off about because she stabbed a teacher with some pruning shears. How?

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (02:42.798)
Yeah, you know what she’s like, it was some pruning shears.

Graeme (02:46.018)
Yeah! But just everything about the episode, the nods in it as well because it is loosely based on Die Hard. That’s where the name comes from and know they’re trapped in the schools, locked in etc. There’s just so much good stuff in this episode and like I said that’s before we get to the introduction of the big bads for the season.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (02:46.633)
you

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (03:15.966)
yeah! With possibly, may I say, one of the most iconic entrances in TV. I will put that out there. Feel free to contest me in the comments, feel free to prove us wrong, but I would say Spike’s entrance, William the Bloody’s entrance to this show has to be one of the most iconic entrances on TV.

Graeme (03:17.902)
Graeme (03:22.116)
Mm-hmm.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (03:35.677)
Mm-hmm

Graeme (03:38.574)
Yeah, if there was someone who just exudes aura and charisma from the first second, that’s what the kids call it.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (03:43.15)
Riz.

Yes, as the kids say, pure Riz. I believe.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (03:49.107)
haha

Graeme (03:51.252)
But from before they actually appear on screen, you say, that entrance, you know, it’s just, it tells you everything you need to know about them. You spike, it’s just like Drew is so underrated in the canon. And just everything about how she plays the character is phenomenal for me. And I have previously had little interactions with her when I was on Twitter.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (04:18.923)
On your way.

Graeme (04:19.779)
and I had been tweeting about rewatching and had reached school hard and here comes Spike and Drew, tagged and got some responses. was like yay! Totally marking out. But yeah, I can’t praise this episode highly enough.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (04:29.537)
no way! that’s so nice!

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (04:35.596)
And for those… No, it is sensational. For those who are yet to watch this episode, I am going to give you a wee bit of a spoiler. Because basically what happens is Spike drives in, in the car, that we see for most of Buffy actually. That bad boy is going for several seasons. And crashes through the Sunnydale sign, gets out of the car, let the jacket, boots, bit of a stomp.

Graeme (04:52.729)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (05:03.022)
He’s very much a Billy Idol-esque, well we’ll come to that at some point I’m sure. And he just goes, takes a good drag of a cigarette, oh he lights actually, zippo out, lights his cigarette, takes a good old drag and is like, home sweet home. And it just, ah, ah, as you rightly say, everything you need to know about this guy in One Fill Sweep. But yes, no, I would say.

Graeme (05:12.569)
likes it. Zippo.

Graeme (05:27.24)
Being fire-drawer has been ethereal-drawer. I’m cold. I’m a princess.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (05:34.478)
It’s just like, Miss Edith. He’s like, like honestly Miss Edith. I’d watch a spin off about Miss Edith. What that doll would have to, like, you know, the therapy that doll has had to go through. I want to hear her side of the story at this point. Like, poor kid. Yeah, it’s excellent. But no, I think that’s a really, it’s a real firm start. School hard, absolute solid. Elena, what about yourself? What we going for?

Alena Bihan-Gallic (05:45.426)
Ha

Graeme (05:50.085)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (05:50.626)
That’s a great one.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (06:02.888)
Okay, well, if I am robbed of saying school hard, which also would have been my choice.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (06:11.118)
Okay, so we’ve got two out of three so far, well maybe even three out of three depending, let’s see.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (06:15.752)
I guess I would pick Halloween.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (06:22.146)
that would have been my second one. That’s so funny. I love that. Okay, that’s a good agreement. think that’s it. We’re all in agreement on these. That’s amazing. Tell us more about Halloween.

Graeme (06:24.719)
Hahaha

Alena Bihan-Gallic (06:30.952)
Yeah. Well, much like in the first season, the episode about their nightmares, it’s almost like, again, Halloween reveals kind of like their shadow or just like some qualities that the characters would like to have and maybe are not as expressed. Also, we have dark Giles.

Graeme (06:31.675)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (06:58.594)
Yes!

Alena Bihan-Gallic (06:59.556)
in the Halloween episode.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (07:01.656)
We have a little introduction to the ripper

Graeme (07:04.389)
the first mention of Ripper.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (07:04.956)
Yes.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (07:06.498)
Uh-uh.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (07:08.552)
And yeah, and all together it’s like an also very atmospheric episode. I guess, you know, it’s…

It’s just so immersive, it’s nice to watch. And I do also like that, of course, Cordelia, who actually is quite practical character, although that’s not something that we’re probably supposed to think about her in the first place.

She’s the one who has a different costume than everyone else, so she doesn’t get affected by whatever, like the curse or the magic in the costumes. So yes, that would be my choice.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (07:56.81)
Amazing. And again, for those of us at home that haven’t quite got to the Halloween episode yet, basically what happens is everybody goes to this costume store that is run by the Ethan Reign. I’m sure we will come back to him. What’s a good word for Ethan? How would we describe Ethan?

Other than chaotic, he’s actually one of my favourite wee additions to the show throughout. I actually have a lot of time for his presence because he is just this kind of, he’s a mechanism for storyline, but he also makes sense in the places where he appears. So like I’m happy to see him on repeat throughout the series. But yeah, so we’ve got Ethan Raine is running this costume shop and he just likes a bit of chaos. He’s there praying to chaos.

And it’s got like the old head sitch, little spooky statue, looks real cool. And basically everybody who is wearing costume that was bought from his shop becomes the costume that they were wearing. Something that’s quite important about this actually is that Xander’s character, the amount of times they call back to the fact that he was dressed in army uniform. Like, lordy, like they really rely on that.

points throughout the entire show and I’m sat there by the end going, how much do you actually remember from one night when you were like, come on now. Like, I feel like we might have used this a little, a little far. but yeah, so does.

Graeme (09:29.761)
I have actually written down that Xander seems to the only one who retains any knowledge of…

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (09:37.862)
Yeah! Yeah, all of the rest of them, did they just blank it out and pretend like it didn’t happen? Like, I mean, I guess in a way though, like he was the only one that was like a, cause Willow was a ghost, and Buffy was a princess, which as we point out in the Hush episode where she’s like, the princess, me!

Graeme (09:42.266)
Yeah.

Graeme (09:49.135)
But was a ghost.

Graeme (09:57.276)
Yep.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (09:58.665)
you

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (09:59.31)
So maybe she did, I don’t know. For anyone at home who’s watching this, my name is Lady Rhee of Reefonia. That is because as Xander says, Lady Buff of Buffonia. I am in awe because she does get a really cracking dress in this episode. Love it. Love it. But yeah, no, it’s funny, isn’t it? How he appears to be the only one who remembers being a, I don’t know what he was. Was he a Marine? I’m actually not sure.

Graeme (10:11.023)
for me.

Graeme (10:28.443)
I thought it was just a genetic soldier.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (10:28.59)
But it becomes just a generic soldier. Yeah, generic soldier Xander V. But yeah, they do call back to that for quite a couple of plot points. So it actually becomes quite an important episode in a way that other episodes so early in Buffy aren’t. You know, that kind of like the kind of non-necessarily, not like plot reliant episodes. Like it calls back to it quite a lot. But yeah, I honestly…

Graeme (10:32.795)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (10:54.504)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (10:57.418)
I am, my hands are now tied because Skull Hard on Halloween would absolutely be my choices for my favourite episodes from this season. I think if I had to pick another one, which would be a favourite probably for another reason, let’s see, let me, let me, let me consider, would probably be Passion.

And this is my favourite because it’s also really awful. And I think it’s the first time that we as a Buffy fandom start experiencing some of the complex themes that Buffy will alter. You know, like obviously, yes, we have had, we have touches of things so far, but this is probably one of the most hard hitting moments for me in the entirety of Buffy.

And now I’m going to give everyone a five second warning and say, if you haven’t watched season two, prepare not to listen to the next five seconds, because this will really give some game away. So just, just don’t listen to me for about 10 seconds. but when obviously Miss Calendar is, is, is, no longer with us, that’s a, that’s a big shock. And I think that that is probably going to bring us on to maybe, maybe we will definitely be calling back to this. So I don’t want to.

Graeme (12:05.306)
you

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (12:24.888)
hard Conta Passion too much because we’re gonna be bringing this up I suspect when we come to talk about villains. But yeah so I think guys I think that’s a solid three for three I think then school hard we are in agreement that that is the best episode of season two yeah we’re all in agreement Halloween a second do we think? Does anyone else have a third? What would your third be if it wasn’t Passion? Have we got a contender for third? Yeah if it wasn’t Passion.

Graeme (12:38.756)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (12:39.314)
Yeah, yes, yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (12:43.847)
Yep.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (12:50.472)
If it wasn’t passion, well, because that would have been my other choice.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (12:54.766)
There you go! Well you see, this is how we know we’re all connected. This is telepathic. Yeah, I love it. Cool. Okay, so we’re all literally in agreement. Is that how we’d list them? We’d go through that. Amazing. Sensational. We’re getting good at this. Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (13:01.084)
Hahaha!

Graeme (13:05.37)
Absolutely. Yep. It’s actually a really strong series and I’ve got what? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven… I’ve got about nine episodes written down that I could have picked from.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (13:20.328)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (13:20.45)
Yeah, it’s honestly, I mean, I’m sure we will come back to this when we start rating where we would put season two. We’ll do that at the end. it is very much up there for me. And probably when I think of Buffy, actually, it’s probably the one that I think of automatically. It’s got some absolutely cracking moments. So now, if we can find one, what are the terrible moments? What are the ones that we would do again and rewrite ourselves?

Alena Bihan-Gallic (13:35.869)
Yeah.

Graeme (13:40.132)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (13:49.742)
What do we think?

Graeme (13:52.698)
Would you like to go first since… Okay, yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (13:52.946)
Go fish.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (13:56.038)
Yeah, go for it. Okay, I’m gonna pit, I’m gonna eeny meeny. Who went first last time? Okay, Elena, it’s you.

Graeme (14:02.08)
I went first last time, so…

Alena Bihan-Gallic (14:07.14)
Yeah, I think I would pick Go Fish because… There’s so many reasons. I think all together, like throughout what I was noticing throughout the season two, there’s some like unreflected slut-shaming happening every now and then. And Go Fish, it’s just so…

blatant that I know that our sensitivity to these topics developed since this episode was made. So I don’t want to be too harsh towards it. But there’s just multiple moments. in this one, basically, Buffy is sexually assaulted at least twice in this episode.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (14:58.734)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (15:05.608)
And but also like from another point of view, it doesn’t really, there’s just like so many logical gaps in it that it’s just really bizarre.

Graeme (15:05.785)
Yep.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (15:23.2)
It feels like we’ve been struck by that little demon that we talked about in the first season where some things feel out of place and like maybe someone’s gone, you know what we should write. And then they make an episode about it rather than it feeling genuine to the story. mean, and obviously, as you say, yes, sensitivities develop, but I do also think that there’s some times when

Graeme (15:32.942)
Mm-hmm.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (15:32.944)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (15:36.594)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (15:50.294)
Stuff is actually just out of character and it’s out of place. And yes, as we’ve just seen it, we’ve just had a comment come in saying, totally go fish. That was so lame. And I think it’s true. It’s true. It’s definitely not. Yeah, I would have to agree with you. think it’s just not real. It doesn’t feel canon. It just doesn’t make sense to me. And it was uncomfortable.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (16:11.432)
Also, there are lot of puns in that episode, which is typical for buffet, like puns, right? But they’re just made in such moments where someone’s being murdered and they make a pun out of it.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (16:18.668)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (16:25.366)
Yeah, it’s really not appropriate. It doesn’t feel authentic to the level of emotional sensitivity that we see in other parts of Season 2. Or in other parts of Buffy in general, but it really just feels like it’s lacking. Do you have anything further to add on this? Are you happy for us to jump in?

Graeme (16:26.339)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (16:32.093)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (16:36.743)
Yes.

Graeme (16:37.456)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (16:48.04)
Let’s continue. I’m sure we will come back to these topics.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (16:50.238)
Let’s continue. Graham, you have anything to say on Go Fish, Graham? Do you have anything to say?

Graeme (16:53.625)
Yeah, I can’t stand the episode and I’ve got four episodes written down for this. Yes, that’s how good this season is. But it’s one of those ones where I almost feel that, without us getting into Joss Whedon just now.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (17:02.414)
Four episodes I can’t stand and nine that are perfect.

Graeme (17:19.705)
but I almost feel like he started with the ending because he thought it was funny.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (17:25.288)
Yes. It does feel a bit like that, doesn’t it? Honestly, Joss. If he could have just not been involved, it would saved us all some time. But there we are.

Graeme (17:26.403)
and worked backwards from there. Yeah.

Graeme (17:37.017)
Now put it on. Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza 1 (17:38.944)
another question has just come in. only question about Go Fish when they went into the sea at the end and swam home, where were they swimming to? Russia? mark. Honestly your guess is as good as ours because I just hope they were swimming far away from the fandom in general never to return and you know so far so far we’ve been we’ve been lucky.

Graeme (18:00.635)
They may as well have just sort of pointed to this guy and I must go, my home planet needs me. Totally put you down.

Cal Macdonald (18:14.469)
I’m just gonna ask him, so is Go Fish almost like that Voyager episode threshold? Like, let’s never talk about this ever again.

Graeme (18:19.695)
Yes.

Graeme (18:23.171)
Yeah, yeah, it’s… If parts of it weren’t so bad, it would be totally forgettable. It’s just, yeah, it’s… It’s not entertaining, you know?

I think I can say much worse about it than it just does nothing for me. It’s not entertaining. Would you like to go next, Ray?

Cal Macdonald (18:44.077)
You

Cal Macdonald (18:56.161)
I think Ree’s come under a spell there. She’s completely frozen.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (19:01.032)
Well, Graham, why don’t you tell us the other episodes you have on the list in the meantime that are the ones that you didn’t like.

Graeme (19:12.699)
So I’m not a fan of Reptile Boy. Which is basically Inca… Yep. And with no offence meant to your title for this evening, Inca Mummy Girl is more or less the same as well. It’s the three of them… In fact, let’s add another one in there because it’s basically the same story again. Just flipped slightly. Some assembly required.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (19:16.89)
Uh-huh. Kind of similar in a way.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (19:40.944)
Yes.

Graeme (19:42.14)
It’s all this idea of someone needs to belong to someone. I’ll probably go more on some assembly required, but it’s the idea that they’re making the perfect girl for the dead brother who’s been reanimated. It does have good moments in it and I will

give it a wee bit of credit because that’s the episode where you’ve got Giles practising asking Miss Callander out where he’s bumbling over the whole thing and Buffy comes in, sees him and know, what you’re doing, asking out the chair they’ll try to speak English, not whatever they speak in England so it’s got good things like that you’ve got a lot of jealousy from

Alena Bihan-Gallic (20:18.026)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (20:18.286)
Yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (20:33.064)
You

Graeme (20:40.619)
Angel in this episode as well because in the previous episode Buffy had danced on Xander basically knowing that Angel was watching.

Graeme (20:56.807)
And it does have that moment where Buffy asks why you jealous and Angel says something to the effect of jealous. No, he’s just a kid. And Buffy’s like, but aren’t I also? Yes, yes you are. You’re 17, your vampire partner’s 241.

Rhiannon Eliza (20:58.322)
does look like moment where Buffy asks why you’re jealous and Linda says something to him. So they’re both like, jealous? No, he’s just a kid. Yes, yes you are. Mm-hmm.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (21:11.304)
Mm.

Rhiannon Eliza (21:18.034)
One might say it’s a bit of a problematic age gap, one might say.

Graeme (21:18.459)
I’ll cover trouble.

Graeme (21:22.297)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (21:23.376)
Yeah, also I’m just gonna apologize briefly. I think I dropped off for a hot minute there. As for all of you that are new to us and have just met us, we are based in the Outer Hebrides and there’s some big wind and some big rain coming our way this weekend, so I’m hoping that that is an indicative of the next couple of days. But we shall see. Yeah, no, I think that those are all some… Obviously I only caught the back end there, but that sounds like some really…

Alena Bihan-Gallic (21:29.021)
Yes.

Graeme (21:29.051)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (21:44.571)
you

Rhiannon Eliza (21:53.48)
important points to be considering. If we haven’t totally moved on from where we were before I would like to also say things that I wasn’t as keen on and do let me know if we’ve already spoken about it. I’m imagining, did we touch on Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered? Not yet. Yeah we totally should because what was that?

Graeme (22:10.671)
Not yet.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (22:11.178)
Not yet, although we totally should.

Graeme (22:15.173)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (22:18.715)
Self-insert.

Rhiannon Eliza (22:19.356)
Self-insert. Yeah, self-insert again. What is his problem? I mean, I know what his problem is. I just, I wish he would stop bringing it into our happy time, which is Buffy. My other one, which is, and this might be really harsh judgment, but genuinely, I, so I’m gonna confess something here live on air. Me and my sister used to have a tradition, and in that tradition, we would watch all of Buffy in seven days.

Graeme (22:31.941)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (22:32.744)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (22:49.03)
Did it mean that we would only sleep for about two or three hours? Yes. Was it healthy? No, no it was not. Was it also just like a challenge? We decided it was a tradition. Also, yes. but in all of the times I have seen Buffy, which I do not even want to begin to think about, because it’s probably a lot, I have only watched Ted once.

literally, I watched it once and I just went, nah. just like, so it’s also the one that I’m probably least qualified to speak on. Cause I honestly think I’ve watched it once, maybe twice. I genuinely, it can’t be more than that. It’s just, see, okay, okay, you see. So maybe next time I watch season two, I will watch Ted. I don’t know why it was genuinely, must’ve just caught me on a bad day.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (23:13.852)
Wow.

Graeme (23:18.363)
You

Alena Bihan-Gallic (23:18.408)
It’s…

Graeme (23:29.14)
I actually think that’s a real shame.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (23:33.063)
No.

Graeme (23:38.723)
It’s… It’s not a wonderful episode. It’s not. But John Ritter is so good.

Rhiannon Eliza (23:47.698)
bless him. I’m sorry, John. I’m sorry. Bear it in mind. bless him. mean, bear it in mind, John, I do apologize to you out there. I was probably like, I don’t know, maybe 11 or 12 when I first watched it, or maybe slightly older, but I was out there when I watched it. And I think Ted, now forgive me if I’m wrong, is Ted the last one on a VHS tape? You know, when you’ve broken them up into three, let’s say they’re on three VHS tapes. I feel like Ted.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (23:49.053)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (23:50.339)
You know… His whole performance makes it watchable.

Rhiannon Eliza (24:17.842)
is like the last one on one of those. And maybe that was part of the reason because I was possibly too lazy to then spend all my time rewinding it right back to the beginning. But I will, now that I don’t have that excuse and haven’t watched VHS in about over 15 years, maybe I should watch Ted again. And I’ll get back to you guys on that. That I can definitely do before our next one.

But yeah, so my main gripe though, I would have to say, other than the ones we’ve already spoken about, which Go Fish would be so probably my number one on that, but Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered, where basically when we talk about self-insert, we spoke about in our first episode that sometimes the character of Xander feels like Joss Whedon is putting himself into the show, which living out some fantasies, shall we say.

Graeme (25:09.272)
living out some fantasies.

Rhiannon Eliza (25:13.938)
And in this episode that he tries to use a love spell to get Cordelia to fall in love with him. But unfortunately this kind of all goes pear-shaped and every woman in Sunnydale ends up being in love with him. Hence the theories on the self-insert-sitch. It also then involves like…

just like everyone coming onto him, we see these characters like, and Buffy included, again, it’s kind of like, we’re starting to, I didn’t enjoy that. it didn’t, it didn’t, no. Again, it’s like one of these things that yes, okay, they were under a spell, but like, did you feel the need to do that? Because I didn’t feel the need to see that. And actually it didn’t, I think,

Graeme (26:29.467)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (26:32.43)
It’s interesting, isn’t it? It’s almost like the whole season has two levels or like two… It’s like split into two parts where one part is very well developed, the psychological, get these intense stories that we really get immersed in. And then it’s the other half, which is basically like as if the trio wrote it.

Rhiannon Eliza (26:33.634)
It’s interesting, think it’s almost like the whole season.

Graeme (26:42.319)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (26:44.818)
It’s split into two parts, where one part is very well developed, the psychological, get these intense stories that we really get immersed in. And then it’s the other half, is basically as if the trio wrote it. just keeps on doing this objectification of women.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (27:03.624)
It just keeps reappearing this objectification of women and what happened there.

Rhiannon Eliza (27:15.426)
Yeah, because like some people could say, all right, there’s this idea that you know, like not to say like relief, but you know, the idea that all you’d have some episodes where it really, but I didn’t find those relieving in no way. In no way did I find those relieving. In fact, I really did find them a sort of, okay, you’ve thrown me in a way that is not either developing the stuff, like doesn’t develop, that you can watch series, for example, Supernatural, love Supernatural, where there’s episodes in between.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (27:26.022)
No.

Rhiannon Eliza (27:45.65)
plot development where they still have fun and they can have a giggle and that’s great and I actually love that about the earlier seasons is it’s not all plot plot plot like this this little stories that you can enjoy and you can immerse yourself in it I actually love those but yeah you’re right pardon yes yes the trickster episodes very good show very good show

Alena Bihan-Gallic (27:58.557)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (28:01.147)
trickster episodes. The trickster episodes in particular.

Rhiannon Eliza (28:10.47)
But yeah, things like that, that are just a bit, you know, they have their own little twist at the end and there was a kind of a moral of the story and that’s all fine. But yeah, you’re right. You’re right, Elena. Like season two, these just keep popping up and you’re going like, why are you doing this to me? You’re ruining what is otherwise a very, you know, developed and soulful time. So there we go. For a season that we’ve all said we love.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (28:23.494)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (28:33.45)
So, so much. We really managed to find some things to pick out there. And again, I can only apologize to Ted’s performance. I promise it was me, not you. It was me, not you. That’s my toxic addition. well, then I nod to you and I say, it was me, not you. It was me, not you. Okay, gone. Yeah.

Graeme (28:42.233)
It’s okay. John Ritter sadly died in 2003.

Graeme (28:53.519)
Did you know that just going back to some assembly required I wrote down some trivia stuff because yeah so the actor who plays Eric the the kid that’s doing most of the photography and it’s a creepier one he co-wrote Scott Pilgrim with Edgar Wright

Rhiannon Eliza (29:01.712)
We love the trivia!

Rhiannon Eliza (29:06.9)
huh. Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (29:15.69)
No way! What an odd sort of six degrees of Kevin Bacon style thing to happen.

Graeme (29:16.795)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (29:22.753)
Yeah. But as well as that, and it relates specifically to that episode, he also wrote the weird science reboot.

Rhiannon Eliza (29:33.654)
there you go! Yeah, it’s like weird science. It’s along the same lines. well there you go! That is good trivia, thanks! You see, every day’s a school day, guys. School hard, school hard. Excellent. Well, now that we have managed to establish the best and the worst of Season 2…

Graeme (29:34.585)
Yeah. And what with the episode being kinda weird science, then yeah, six degrees.

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (29:48.698)
You’re welcome.

Rhiannon Eliza (30:00.848)
I think whilst we were having a wee little chat before we got started and we just wanted to go over what we were going to talk about tonight, I feel like we can turn and spin into our sidekicks because I feel like the villain chat is going to be huge. So let’s give our sidekick some love and give our sidekick some nods. In particular, we would like to bring to everybody’s attention Miss Cordelia Chase because me, my, what a dish, what a doll, what a gal, what an absolute weapon. Absolutely love her. Elena.

take us away. Comments, thoughts, feelings.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (30:34.408)
Well, I really like the character of Cordelia. Even when she has moments when she’s supposed to be the mean girl, I find it hard to dislike her. I appreciate how practical she is. She’s looking out for number one.

Rhiannon Eliza (30:37.106)
I really like the character of Cordelia. Even when she has moments when she’s supposed to be the mean girl, I find it hard to dislike her. I appreciate how practical she is. She’s looking out for number one, and that’s something we should all do.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (31:01.136)
And that’s something we should all do from time to time.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (31:11.602)
Yeah

Rhiannon Eliza (31:16.078)
Yeah. And also, she’s a really useful sidekick. She always takes people somewhere by car. Even though she had a time getting her driving license, becomes a very capable driver.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (31:16.424)
Yeah. And also she’s a really useful sidekick. She always takes people somewhere by car. Even though she had a hard time getting her driving license initially, she becomes a very capable driver who can just like, you know,

Rhiannon Eliza (31:35.366)
Yeah, I forgot about that for a hot second. Yeah, no, she’s amazing. And even later on in the series, I think it’s nice because we do start to see, in season one, when we see, when we see Cordie kind of, as you say, real mean girl stuff. I mean, don’t get me wrong. Some of the lines that she comes out with are blinders. Like they are, mean girl, but my goodness, are they funny? Which is, you know, it’s an absolute critical, critical combination.

But yeah, in season two, we just kind of start to see this softer side, this human side, this compassion, this genuine, this not only just development, maybe just us seeing more of her, like, you know how it’s like kind of the idea that the more you get to know someone, the areas of them that you see, either be redeemable, or you’d see something in them that you love. I think in a way, that’s kind of how Cordy is portrayed to us. see this, you know, obviously, charisma carpenter is stunningly, stunningly wonderful.

And the hair, what I wouldn’t have done to have Cordy’s hair, like my goodness. But you know, we kind of see what we want to see in the first season, to a sense. And then the second season, we just get that sort of development. We get that softness. We get to know her as a person a little bit more, Cordy as a person. So yeah, I would say, I honestly, yeah, Cordy, big up. Graham, anything to say?

Graeme (32:57.915)
across the whole Buffyverse. So we include Buffy and Angel here. think Kavdelia has probably the best character development over the course. Possibly the second best because we might come back to someone later. In fact, we will come back to someone later. But from that journey from season one where it’s Mean Girl through it, you start to see her soften. Probably a little bit in episode one of this season.

More so episode 2. You’ve got the whole bit in the second episode which I think is in fact some assembly required where she hides in a bin and Angel finds her. But she’s the one who gives us the exposition about Daryl. The previous episode you know when Buffy comes back from LA Buffy’s out mean-girling the mean girl.

But coordinate the phrase that I kept writing down for each episode. And it softens a wee bit, but generally I kept coming back to obnoxiously wonderful.

Because that just for me summed up Cordie, which is amazing. And like I say, when you then carry on through the seasons, when you move to LA and watch Angel, Cordie is such an integral part of that. By far, even yes we know what Whedon did, In terms of screwing Charisma Carter around and all that. But as a character, I just think she’s amazing.

Rhiannon Eliza (34:11.298)
Alena Bihan-Gallic (34:15.304)
That’s great,

Alena Bihan-Gallic (34:27.474)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (34:43.706)
Yes, I would also at this point, just because I’m obviously aware of our time this evening, I’m going to jump straight into the next one that I would like to raise and say Kendra. What? Like, you know, this is the first time that we, as a result of the end of season one, obviously Buffy technically dies. And so for all of you that don’t know, when a slayer dies, the next one is called. And so we see Kendra appear.

Now, I will have to say accent situation, not sure about that as a choice, because I’m sure there were, you know, don’t get me wrong, actress absolutely fantastic. but I am often of the belief that it’s like maybe, maybe they could have made a different decision there and I’m not sure it’s aged very well. but

Alena Bihan-Gallic (35:23.208)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (35:39.89)
it did bring a really interesting dynamic because all of a sudden there’s like, whoa, could Buffy have this normal life that she dreams of? know, and it’s kind of, and I think that after seeing the amount of pressure that season one put on her, and you know, as I say, she literally, it’s like literally died. It’s like, actually just that kind of offers, I think as an audience, you kind of go like, ooh, maybe there is this relief and Kendra is very by the book. know, Buffy’s like shoot from the hip gunslinger and Kendra is

by the book, she’s read everything. Giles is loving, loving this. Like she came, she came fully prepared. And you know, and actually I like, you know, in the same way that we see Cordy kind of soften up and stuff as well, we see Kendra come around to the Scooby’s way of doing things and she softens and she, she likes it and she starts fitting in very much a part of it. And the loss that I felt later on was I think

Graeme (36:13.727)
yes.

Graeme (36:26.032)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (36:39.31)
It was kind of complicated because it’s almost like you hadn’t got to see as much of her as you wouldn’t like, if Kendra hadn’t died then we wouldn’t have got to see who comes next, who I’m sure we will all come onto at some point, the Barmichelle, and probably one of my favourite characters ever, for many reasons. But yeah, so it’s like actually Kendra, while she is sadly short-lived with us on screen,

I actually thought she did bring quite a lot of interest. She brought interesting dynamic to the story and how that played out. What do you guys reckon?

Rhiannon Eliza (37:17.316)
Mm-hmm. She gets… No, no, no.

Graeme (37:17.711)
Please go ahead.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (37:19.814)
Okay. Well, no, just also what I like about Kendra’s presence that Buffy expresses what we kind of already see that she’s very like mature in terms of dealing with her emotions and that she’s using them to fight and she’s kind of like sharing that with Kendra who has a different approach. So yeah, that’s definitely.

interesting character and I have to say when I rewatched it and I saw her die, I thought that doesn’t work. you know you’re told that killing a slayer is a difficult task and then Drusilla just like does it with her nail.

Rhiannon Eliza (37:58.051)
I thought that doesn’t work. You’re told that killing a slayer is a difficult task. And Ursula just does it, then she whips her arm. It’s like, it just feels like all of your hopes and dreams, like, you know, and not just for this young woman, but also for Buffy through the fact that this young woman is now here. It’s like, it just goes as quickly as you had it.

Graeme (38:07.342)
Yep.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (38:19.645)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (38:23.515)
Yes.

Rhiannon Eliza (38:26.156)
and that yeah it’s a kind of loss that you can’t quite explain and I think it’s interesting because there is so much loss in this season that actually it’s it’s like a different kind and I feel like we got that we got a plethora of loss in this season so yeah it’s interesting to see the balance. Is there anyone else you’d like to give a shout out to in this season Graham as a sidekick related character or a co-character?

Alena Bihan-Gallic (38:26.216)
Mm-hmm.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (38:35.272)
Yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (38:38.92)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Graeme (38:51.547)
Sidekick not so much but I have so much love for Principal Snyder. Just every time Armand Shimmerman is on screen it’s…

Rhiannon Eliza (38:57.325)
Yes. I think he can blend into the villain. I think he can lead us into the the villain section. He’s kind of he’s kind of that in between like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, because he is he is an excellent he is an excellent character, but he’s definitely got that villain-esque. He’s definitely got that villain-esque.

Graeme (39:05.487)
Good. Yep.

Graeme (39:11.866)
Yeah.

He’s in a lot of ways, he’s just your archetypal mean school principal. He’s, know, what you call him, principal Strickland from Back to the Future. He’s that character writ large. mean, everything that that man does on screen is watchable. And you find out.

Rhiannon Eliza (39:22.748)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (39:30.866)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (39:38.48)
He’s just got some of the best lines in the entire show. Like in the whole, all of the seven seasons. I feel like they all got together and went, you know what, we’re just gonna write some of funniest stuff and we’re gonna give it to this one guy. And that was okay, because it did enough.

Graeme (39:41.807)
Yeah, absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Graeme (39:55.13)
And I really enjoy that a lot of the things that he says it’s actually Giles that ends up sort of bringing the prophecy to life. Like very first episode he’s talking about how a pretty girl walks by, every boy turns into a gibbering fool and then Miss Callender comes in and Giles is like ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. There’s lots of little things, he’s just amazing.

Rhiannon Eliza (40:03.81)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (40:10.086)
Yeah.

No, no, no, no,

Alena Bihan-Gallic (40:14.355)
Ha

Rhiannon Eliza (40:19.406)
Yeah.

Now I am just desperately trying to quickly… Oh no no no, because this is early season three so I don’t want to touch onto this yet but I feel like I have to because we’ve now mentioned Snyder. This is slightly breaking the rules. Is it breaking the rules? Can I break the rules just for this one bit? Is that okay? Okay let’s break these rules because it’s when Giles is in the office with him.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (40:40.175)
I think you can. I work for breaking.

Graeme (40:44.603)
and she was bad.

Rhiannon Eliza (40:50.392)
And it just out, this is when I’m saying we’ve seen a little bit of ripper in season two. We see a whole lot of ripper for a wee while. And then it’s there. Would you like me to convince you? I was like. Giles, no. And then the older I get, I’m like, Giles, no. cat attack, cat attack. The cat agrees, the cat agrees. hello. She’s like, me too.

Graeme (41:01.253)
You

Alena Bihan-Gallic (41:03.251)
Ha

Graeme (41:08.076)
Ha ha ha!

Alena Bihan-Gallic (41:10.194)
Yeah, it’s… yes, it’s very… Sorry about that.

Rhiannon Eliza (41:15.28)
Me too. Yeah, no, literally it was like, Charles, how could you do this? And now I’m literally like, Charles, how could you be like this? It’s so silly. Yeah, no, literally. my goodness. But no, he’s… No, you don’t. Yeah. yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We will come to that. Surely, surely, surely we shall. Yeah, no, I think that Snyder is… I could just genuinely talk about him all day. He’s probably one of the funniest characters and…

Graeme (41:24.719)
then you don’t see enough of that again until I’d like to put that to the test.

Graeme (41:32.407)
we’ll definitely get there.

Rhiannon Eliza (41:44.944)
just the times when you’re like, it’s not quite… Like you hate him because I feel like you’ve all had a teacher who’s a bit like, no offence to teachers, I have big love and big respect for the jobs that you guys do, but there is always one. And it feels like Principal Snyder does embody that one so well. The one who never becomes the teacher. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that’s what he says, doesn’t he? What’s…

Alena Bihan-Gallic (42:00.478)
Yeah.

Graeme (42:04.239)
Yeah. These are my rules. Yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (42:06.259)
Yeah, the one who never wanted to be a teacher.

Graeme (42:12.667)
so I’m crawling around mindlessly feeding and mating like locusts and Giles says something along the lines of, have you considered, given how much you hate kids, perhaps being a school principal wasn’t the calling for you? Something like that. Apologies if I butchered it.

Rhiannon Eliza (42:14.213)
come on.

Rhiannon Eliza (42:19.546)
Yes, yes, yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (42:33.747)
Yeah, yeah.

Graeme (42:38.715)
Good luck out.

Rhiannon Eliza (42:39.594)
So, Snyder says, crawling around mindlessly bent on feeding and making the story

Graeme (42:50.629)
Got it.

So Snyder says, crawling around mindlessly bent on feeding and mating, destroying everything in sight and their relentless, pointless desire to exist. And Giles says, have you considered, given your abhorrence of children, that school principal was not perhaps your vocation?

Rhiannon Eliza (43:10.354)
Excellent. 12 out of 10. Close enough. No, that’s a solid effort to be fair. That’s a solid effort when we were talking about it in passing. Yeah, yeah, Snyder. What a guy. But yes, I feel like that has led us well into the villain era of this side, which I feel like we’re just gonna have to go for it, guys. Let’s just start with Spike and Dre and then we will approach Angelus because I feel like that gets its own…

Alena Bihan-Gallic (43:10.598)
you

Graeme (43:12.581)
close enough.

Graeme (43:18.171)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (43:40.57)
gotta get, I feel like save the iconic to like obviously both iconic don’t get me wrong but they are both iconic for very different reasons. Spike and Drew, just take it away Elena, best mo- just Spike and Drew, enough says. But Elena what’s your favourite Spike and Drew moment from this series? If there could be only one.

Graeme (43:51.419)
Just speaking through.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (43:59.303)
Hmm.

I think there’s gonna be more if I’m remembering correctly in the next seasons. Spike hanging around with Joyce. I guess that’s what’s endearing about Spike even when he’s in his full demon mode. His humanity is very present in…

Rhiannon Eliza (44:05.52)
I think there’s gonna be more if I’m remembering correctly in the next season. By hanging around with Joyce. yes!

I guess that’s what’s endearing about Spike even when he’s in his full demon mode. His humanity is very present in the things he likes. And also that he’s so dedicated to his lover. That’s just something that makes him very endearing. So I would pick that one.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (44:29.769)
the things he likes and also that he’s so dedicated to his lover. That’s just something that makes him very endearing. So I would pick that one because otherwise there are so many epic ones. I would find it hard to select only one. And with Drew… Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (44:49.042)
because otherwise there are so many epic monsters that I wouldn’t find it harsh to sell on the floor. that the bit that you’re talking about when in the season 2 finale becoming part 2 when he’s basically sat with Joyce and she goes like, she’s like, do we know each other? And he’s like, you hit me with an axe one time, remember? Get the hell away from my daughter. And she’s like, oh, okay. Like, okay.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (45:02.378)
Yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (45:05.857)
Yeah.

Hahaha

And she’s like, which like Joyce has her own arc throughout this whole season where she’s like, heavily suppressing what is going on and then coming to terms with it in an odd way. So that’s a perfect one as well. And with Drew, I think when she wants to…

Rhiannon Eliza (45:17.266)
seen it season where she’s like heavily suppressing what is going on and she’s with it in an odd way, so that’s a perfect example. And with Drew, I think when she wants to dig a little grave for herself and sleep in it naked like an animal or something, that’s just her peak moment for me.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (45:36.701)
dig a little grave for herself and sleep in it naked like an animal or something. That’s just her peak moment for me. yeah.

Graeme (45:43.482)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (45:46.706)
I think first being introduced to Miss Edith in the tea party will forever shine brightly in my soul. But yeah, think it’s similarly like the times when you just kind of learn that Spike is slightly… He loves the chaos and he loves the murder and he loves the madness, but he’s also a bit like, actually I kind of like…

Graeme (45:48.251)
you

Rhiannon Eliza (46:12.21)
planet Earth being here and letting me do these things and I don’t actually want to destroy everything and make it hell because I quite like just being a complete inconvenience to everybody and it’s just the chaos that comes with him that he does have rules and I feel like sometimes actually the most powerful villains have rules as we will approach the mayor at some points.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (46:14.792)
Graeme (46:35.481)
Yay.

Rhiannon Eliza (46:36.194)
Absolutely. But I like this because Spike does have his own rule book and he’s like, okay, I like all this chaos and things like that, but I don’t actually want like, yeah, we want hell, but we don’t actually want hell. In fact, I think he says something similar. He’s like, know, demons talk about it. but I think for me, it’s when he’s like speaking to one of the vampires when he comes in and he goes, you were there.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (46:50.002)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (46:59.986)
If every vampire was like, yeah, but it’s like if every vampire who said he was at the crucifixion was actually there, it would have been like Woodstock. It’s like literally probably one of my favorite lines. Yeah, absolutely. So. He’s very anti-Copo. He’s just like the actual like, anti-Copo against all these like, kids that dream about what it would be like to be a vampire. Yeah.

Graeme (47:00.271)
Which stock?

Alena Bihan-Gallic (47:15.88)
He’s very anti-pumpous, he’s just like the actual counterpoint against all these kids that dream about what it would be like to be vampires and they have these capes and so he’s very much like punk and loving life.

Graeme (47:20.283)
and

Rhiannon Eliza (47:31.922)
and loving life. As we know, Billy Idol got his look from him. Like, what can we say? His, absolutely. But yeah, Graham, what about yourself?

Graeme (47:33.008)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (47:38.322)
Yeah.

Graeme (47:43.863)
I had the crucifixion with stock line written down.

Rhiannon Eliza (47:47.25)
you

Alena Bihan-Gallic (47:48.785)
Yeah.

Graeme (47:49.628)
That was what I had, yes. With the follow up of I fade off a flower person and spent the next six hours watching my hand move. Thank you.

Rhiannon Eliza (47:50.066)
It’s because it’s great! It’s because it’s great! my hand move. Yeah, excellent. Yeah, it is brilliant. And again, you’re just like, how can they bomb some of these episodes so hard when the rest of it is just, you know, that’s the kind of comic relief we’re talking about. That’s the kind of relief that we need is these characters that are so well written.

Graeme (48:10.095)
Yeah.

Graeme (48:15.407)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (48:18.928)
that day one, week one, you know what they’re about, you know what their rules are, you know how they’re willing to play. you know, even things like, like when he’s there and he’s like, what he’s getting vampires like record Buffy fighting and him like, like playing it back and being like, you know, she’s, you know, it’s kind of, I dunno, I like, yeah, I like that he’s got rules whilst also being very punk and a massive rule breaker. It’s, it’s a good set. I think that obviously.

Other villain-wise, we’ve got the annoying one, which… We’ve got the annoying one, which is the anointed one for those… Yeah, yeah, the kid! Ha ha ha! Yeah, we have a quote in the show where someone refers to him as the annoying one. And so he is the anointed one. Spikey, yeah, is Spikey. yeah, it’s the annoying one. Yeah, so obviously they exist. Sure, fine.

Graeme (48:52.773)
briefly.

Graeme (48:57.423)
And the kid.

Graeme (49:07.867)
fake, is it not?

Rhiannon Eliza (49:16.624)
I don’t really have a lot of things to say about that. mean, it’s kind of, for me, it was just kind of there. And to provide something that we’re sort of building up to when we need to know who the One is and blah, blah. it’s, and that’s fine because it’s almost in a way that you forget that sometimes your enemies can be a little bit closer than that. They can be a little bit closer to home. And for many people in the world and for many women in the world.

that can in fact be your partner and that can change very rapidly and it can look very different on the inside. And one of the key things about season two is the change of Angel to Angelus. And I don’t know about anyone else, but that to me was a pretty like formative experience watching that. One of the key things

Alena Bihan-Gallic (50:11.816)
Yes.

Rhiannon Eliza (50:15.794)
this season for me so and for anyone who isn’t aware Buffy and Angel sleep together it’s the first time that Buffy has had sex and when Angel and her sleep together he loses his soul so basically Angel is a vampire with a soul and when they sleep together he loses his soul because it’s a moment of pure happiness and he’s under this curse he’s cursed to never be able to experience true happiness

I like, I hope I did a quick run through of that there, a roundabout way of doing it. But for me, before we kind of go any further along the Angel and Buffy line, I would like to do a little shout out to another one of the sort of co-characters, Giles, who for me gives one of the most beautiful speeches and words of wisdom at the end where he’s like, I’m not gonna judge you. He’s like, I’m not judging you for this. And I actually think that for the time when this, so this season came out in 1997.

My heir of birth, whoop whoop, holla holla. It just, I don’t know, it’s kind of one of those things which actually for Giles being such an important father figure to Buffy was really nice. It was really wholesome to see that this, he’s sitting there and yes, okay, in a way, it’s him talking about the fact that, we didn’t know that Angel was gonna be evil. But it is obviously about the fact that he’s like, look, I’m not.

blaming you for the fact that this boy’s then turned out not to be the man that you thought he was and he’s now been really abusive and really horrible because when Angel loses his soul he becomes absolutely vicious, violent and deeply deeply sinister, stalking, traumatizing character which for all of us that had come to completely fall in love with him and David Brennis entirely, like actually that’s, that’s, it’s just, it’s a lot, it is a lot.

What about you guys? Anything to say?

Graeme (52:10.743)
I that what you said there about Giles, apart from anything else, and to go all heavy about it, from a trauma informed perspective, he did absolutely the right thing. You know, he made sure that Buffy that this isn’t your fault. I’m not judging you for it, but I’m here for you. yeah, and as silly as this might sound…

Rhiannon Eliza (52:19.794)
Yeah. Yeah. It was really, really beautiful.

Graeme (52:37.875)
As a parent, I like to think that I’ve taken bits of parent inspiration from characters like Giles, where it’s well written, you know, nobody’s perfect, gets it wrong.

Rhiannon Eliza (52:46.77)
That’s so lovely. it’s so… No, but it’s so important to see this kind of representation of really wholesome… Because like so often, like obviously the dynamic with… Now I didn’t even shout out to Joyce in this series, who as another sort of co-character definitely should have. But there’s some times when Joyce does not behave in the way that I would have liked to seen her behave throughout Buffy. There’s a couple of…

Graeme (52:56.88)
Yeah.

Graeme (53:12.997)
Ted, for example.

Rhiannon Eliza (53:14.972)
For example, probably why I didn’t watch it again. Maybe that’s a psychology thing I can approach on my own later. But there are definitely opportunities during Buffy where Joyce fell short in my expectations. As does Stiles, I’m not letting him off clean. But this in particular was a moment where I think that it was really something to see some really great representation of how young people can be supported through these real…

Graeme (53:20.667)
You

Rhiannon Eliza (53:42.546)
tricky times and mistakes that I know people far older and in bit, commerce far wiser have made exactly the same mistakes and it never gets any easier. But yeah, so I was I was very moved by that performance from Anthony heads. I it was very lovely. And yeah, please carry on.

Graeme (53:58.47)
think in terms of Angelus, I think one of things for me is just how cruel he gets.

Rhiannon Eliza (54:07.587)
It’s awful. This is why we wanted to wait to talk about passion because this is like for me personally this this is where this really comes in so the episode passion we referred to earlier is heartbreaking for many reasons.

Graeme (54:12.463)
Yeah.

Graeme (54:20.269)
It’s not just how he messes with Buffy, it’s how he goes about to systematically mess with every single person in her life.

Rhiannon Eliza (54:25.638)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (54:31.873)
like you said it’s sinister and I think it’s really quite interesting how know Spike comes in as the big bad the the evil one the chaotic one blah blah blah but like you said he’s got rules he’s

Rhiannon Eliza (54:43.886)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He has got rules. He’s got rules, and I think that… Sorry, no, please carry on,

Graeme (54:51.963)
I was just going say he has, throughout the whole thing, he’s retained that sort of romanticism that William, that he had at when he was William.

Rhiannon Eliza (54:59.856)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I’m sure we will come back to that.

Graeme (55:04.223)
we will. And the poems. But with Angelus, he’s just utterly lonesome in every single way.

Rhiannon Eliza (55:17.046)
It’s interesting isn’t it because I think the older I get now, obviously I said that I’ve watched Buffy about a million times apart from the episode Ted and yourselves, older I get the more it hurts actually, the more watching that hurts me and I don’t know whether that’s like a thing that we can all, a position we can all put ourselves in or we can all relate to but whether that is then as someone who would care about a person this age going through that or even just anybody right? It’s like you start to appreciate how

Rhiannon Eliza (56:11.609)
Just that I like the choice of…

Alena Bihan-Gallic (56:12.057)
Just that I like the choice of like, Angelus’ speech and this like, I don’t even know how to describe this like behavior of this like, you know, like a young, disrespectful, I guess like, it’s very probably psychotic is the only way I can think of, but it kind of like, you know, he’s

not at all serious. Even the way he walks is different. I don’t know if you noticed. He just doesn’t take anything seriously. The only break you get from it is in the episode, I only have eyes for you.

Rhiannon Eliza (56:48.886)
It just doesn’t take anything seriously. only break you get from it is in the episode, because I only have eyes for you. I love that episode. we should have talked about that earlier. actually, the song from that I have on my Spotify and it pops up quite a lot. whenever it would do the rounds, my partner’s like, is that the one from, I’m like, yes it is.

Graeme (57:01.241)
Yep.

Graeme (57:13.029)
Yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:14.462)
haha

Rhiannon Eliza (57:16.464)
Yes it is, no judgment here please, only kind words. But yeah, only have eyes, and you’re right, it’s like that minute where they kiss again and then he like jumps out of the runs away and you see her face like, that in itself is its own torture. It is torturous that she has gone through this, that she for a second thought that she had him back. And that’s breadcrumbing. Like it’s, know, in the real world, if Muffy wasn’t a metaphor here.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:26.718)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:32.393)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:39.593)
But it…

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:43.977)
Yeah, yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:49.427)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (57:54.177)
But isn’t it interesting that his Angelus’ quests, other than fermenting buffet, are about destroying the world? And it’s almost like he’s hating himself and just wants to destroy it all.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (57:54.634)
But isn’t it interesting that his, Angelus’ quests, other than tormenting Buffy, are about destroying the world. And it’s almost like he’s hating himself so much that he just wants to destroy it all, right?

Rhiannon Eliza (58:11.864)
I honestly think you’re right. I think that that’s not something like, cause even Spikes like we talk about it, but like we never actually try to destroy the world. What are you doing? And he never really set, like he never really gives a reason. And you’re like, well, he didn’t want to destroy the world before. Like in all of the cutbacks we see to sort of previous Angeles life, he was living the high life and he was partying hard and he was killing and sleeping his way through all of Europe and traumatizing everybody that he went. But like he wasn’t destroying the world.

Like as far as I could tell. So I think you’re right. I think all of a sudden there’s another dynamic in this because as we will learn as Buffy goes on, one can be a vampire without a soul and still have some semblance of humanity in places. So I wonder if in as well, like he’s overcompensating, like, you know, he’s, really trying to crush up the cruelty because he can’t cope with what he’s doing or what he wants to do. So he’s got to just let it all burn.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (58:59.635)
Yeah, yeah.

Graeme (59:00.378)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (59:11.13)
Yeah, interesting, interesting thoughts. I like it. This is good.

Graeme (59:16.557)
How much do you think that the end of passions, what happens there, inspires future Giles actions?

Graeme (59:30.415)
I’m thinking end of season five.

Rhiannon Eliza (59:32.69)
Yeah, I thought that’s probably what you were getting at. I have to agree. I have to agree. I wonder because it must be so hard for him to go, you know what mean? to have gone through that again. Like, yeah, I would have to say yes. And I think that sometimes Giles does get a lot of heavy judgment in the later series for some stuff. And you go, this guy’s been through a lot. Like, I’m not saying, you know, nobody’s perfect. And I think that’s something that Buffy does.

Graeme (59:57.477)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:00:00.527)
quite well actually as a show is that nobody’s perfect and people do make mistakes in that and you know there’s ways to come around that. But yeah, yeah definitely actually I think that that’s maybe not given enough credit as a sort of a timeline because actually it’s not that long. Like you know if you think about these, these are supposed to be every season’s kind of a school year right? So if that’s gonna be the case then actually it’s really not been very long since this man has gone through all of these things.

Graeme (01:00:17.06)
It’s not.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:00:29.456)
much like many of our characters, but yes, I think you’re probably right. But yeah, for anyone that doesn’t know, Passions is the episode where Giles, who has been incredibly loved up and fallen in love with Miss Jennifer Callender, who has been one heck of a side character, again, my goodness, there’s so many characters in season two. You know what, guys, I think we will do an episode just on sidekicks and coes at some point, and Scoobies, sidekicks, coes, and Scoobies, because there’s just so many that I love.

And Jenny Callender is an absolute pocket rocket. is a hero of mine. Women in tech, women in STEM, let’s go! She’s amazing and she meets an incredibly grisly, brutal and cruel end which is then displayed for Giles to find in a way that is just harrowing. So yeah, this guy has really been through the wringer and our girl Jen did not deserve that in any way, shape or form.

Um, but yeah, so anything else on it? Obviously, I would also like to say the music in this series where you get the buffian angel, like, you know, the buffian angel bit. Okay. Yes. I may not have grown, I might not have grown up enough that that still doesn’t absolutely took up my heartstrings. Okay. I was like the 15, 16 year old girl within me still lives and breathes and she is like, like crying the whole time. It’s okay. It’s okay. I’m fine now. I promise. Um.

But yeah, so I think that, you know, the whole set up of it and at the end, obviously, Elena, you like to talk us through the end of season C? Would you like to give us a, how it ended, how did you feel about that?

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:02:10.633)
Well, I thought, I was wondering whether they were still worried that the show might get cancelled because it’s quite a well-rounded end. Like it could theoretically, I mean, perish the thought, but it could end there, right? Because we kind of like deal with,

does Joyce realize what’s going on? And she does towards the end. And there are moments where Buffy has to deal with what does it mean to be Slayer, but in the real world, because she actually gets entangled with the police at some point. And at one point she even thinks she killed a person, which ends up being a robot.

These themes and responsibility as a superhero are coming towards the end, where she, as we will talk about in season three, decides to briefly leave. And also, something we didn’t mention at all, in this season we see Willow gaining more power, not just magical power, she also gets more assertive, but it is kind of like the beginning of

Rhiannon Eliza (01:03:19.452)
something we didn’t mention at all, in this season we see Willow gaining more power, not just magical power, she also gets a more assertive, but it’s kind of like the beginning of Willow’s A big old arc that is gonna take us in some places, that’s for sure. And so that was also very satisfying to see like this start.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:03:32.487)
below the witch.

Graeme (01:03:34.394)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:03:38.739)
Yeah. And so that was also very satisfying to see like this start of that. So yeah, I found it like a very good end to the season.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:03:47.406)
I found it like a very good end to the season. Yeah, it was very, as you say, was really well-rounded. I thought it was really balanced. mean, and it kind of had that open end where you could see and thank the lords that it did, thank the gods that it did, but obviously continue on into a third season. But as you rightly say, it could have ended there and it still would have been a great two seasons of TV. And I wouldn’t have, I would have just had to watch that even more and then Ted wouldn’t have got missed at all, it?

because it would have been finite. But yeah, I have to say the ending of season two, I cried for about a week, maybe two. The first time I watched it, it was obviously a lot for a teenage girl to watch, as well as undoubtedly for Buffy to go through. And actually, I will say this, I will sing it from the hills every time.

The metaphors in Buffy are there and they are there for a reason. know, Joyce finding out that she’s a slayer, pretty sure there’s many things that can be contributed. You know, like there’s so many metaphors and allegories and things that are used throughout this show. But for me personally, even just the idea of you’re a teenage girl, you’re dating an older guy, he turns out to be a really horrible, he uses you, your life sucks.

Your mom doesn’t know what’s going on, everything. It’s just, it’s like, it’s, yeah, there’s a lot to deconstruct in season two. And am I right? I know I’m, feel like I’m about to get this very wrong. But is this the bit where she turns around to Joyce and she’s going open your eyes, mom? Like what do you think has been going on here? And for me personally, I think that is, for me that felt like a coming out. And I, you know, the not.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:05:31.945)
Yes, yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:05:40.643)
Oop, dramatic pause there. All right.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:05:42.434)
no!

Graeme (01:05:43.483)
you

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:05:46.185)
It’s very dramatic. okay, yeah, you’re moving again.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:05:47.374)
traumatic pause, traumatic pause. Hello, I’m here. For me, that felt like a coming out. am I back? Am I back? cool. Yeah, it felt like Buffy coming out almost, or like a coming out kind of story to me, which if we’re gonna be…

Cal Macdonald (01:05:47.661)
Yes. Yes.

Graeme (01:05:49.785)
It’s your bike.

Cal Macdonald (01:05:56.985)
Yeah. Yeah, you’re back.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:05:59.187)
Yes, yes.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:06:07.059)
Mm-hmm.

Cal Macdonald (01:06:09.017)
Ooh, pausing again. is… I’m getting drip fed this story right now.

Graeme (01:06:12.623)
I’ll add to that. I’ll add to that a little bit.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:06:12.634)
I was going to say you guys, you guys drop in because if I’m dropping out, you guys drop in. You go with it. What do you think? Do you think I’m way off base? Do you think I’m about right?

Graeme (01:06:21.127)
No, I think you’re spot on because I think even that whole kind of what do you mean, what does that mean? That’s almost like Joy’s coming to terms with Buffy coming out. That was certainly how I always looked at it anyway. I quite like…

Rhiannon Eliza (01:06:40.037)
and not like

Cal Macdonald (01:06:44.517)
I think we’ve lost Rhiannon again. Yeah, we’ve lost her properly this time. Yes, I think we’ve…

Graeme (01:06:45.275)
Cheers.

Graeme (01:06:49.051)
she’s gone dark. I like that the way it ends because you know at the moment the exact moment that Buffy kills Angel is the exact moment he gets his soul back and there’s that moment of realisation. I like the kind of long-reaching effects of that one Buffy as a character through the next seasons because she sacrificed him to save the world.

but she’s never quite got that same almost like Dwight naivety after that. Her faith in what’s good has been destroyed. And I think that that and the effects on Buffy as a character and her wider circle, I think that whole effect there just makes the coming seasons even better.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:07:51.122)
I think we definitely feel the effects of their relationship throughout the entirety of the show. Even and into Angel as well. Which obviously is a show that we will probably talk about either whilst we’re here or separately or both. But yeah it’s definitely like what’s the episode in Angel where he becomes human for a day? All that kind of stuff I’m sure-

Cal Macdonald (01:08:17.488)
geez.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:08:18.793)
Yeah, Rhiannon was talking about an episode where for a day Angel becomes human and they can just be with Buffy and they reunite. But then for altruistic reasons, Angel decides to revert that and he remembers it and Buffy doesn’t. it’s just this unfulfilled love is even stronger because he doesn’t get to…

Rhiannon Eliza (01:08:41.967)
It’s just this unfulfilled love that’s even stronger because he doesn’t get to… Oh, she doesn’t get to even remember it. I’m going to apologize and say yes yes it is um I was gonna say I’m apologizing because I think I keep dropping out so if I end up dropping out and not being able to come back I do apologize um but yeah so it’s one of those like that relationship you know

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:08:48.809)
she doesn’t get to even remember it.

Graeme (01:08:52.635)
like the one with the ring.

Graeme (01:08:58.767)
Yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:09:02.894)
Yeah, you did.

Cal Macdonald (01:09:06.777)
Yeah

Rhiannon Eliza (01:09:10.431)
even to this day, you you’ve got like, is it, it, is it bangel or is it spuffy? Like, you know, and at the minute I think I’ve got my, I’ve got, I’ve got a spuffy t-shirt on today. So, you know, spoilers. but, yeah. So I think there’s not no looking at Riley, but we will come to that. I tell you what though, up until probably recently, I thought Riley was like top dog.

Cal Macdonald (01:09:16.545)
Yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:09:21.647)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:09:22.152)
Graeme (01:09:22.661)
Mm-hmm.

Graeme (01:09:29.435)
I was going to say it’s interesting nobody ever thinks of Riley.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:09:39.951)
was like, yeah, I love Riley. And then I was like, oh. But again, you watch it at different times in your life, you get different things from it. And that will always be the joy for me with Buffy, will always be the joy. But yeah, anything else to add about season two? Oh, we need to rank it. We need to rank where season two stands.

Cal Macdonald (01:09:59.268)
Before we go there, myself and Elena can do a bit of shameless self-promotion because we got a unique insight into season two the other day.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:10:05.679)
of course, yes. Yes, incredible stuff.

Graeme (01:10:08.612)
Yeah

Cal Macdonald (01:10:10.807)
Some interesting stories that Jeff Ruett, the stunt coordinator, from seasons two till four or five I remember.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:10:15.284)
Yes.

Yeah, season two till four, yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:10:20.115)
Yeah, yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:10:22.351)
Basically, he tried to get the job for season one and Joss Whedon absolutely refused to have him. Outright, they would show his demo tapes and he would throw them away because he did Power Rangers. They said, I’m not having Power Rangers fighting in this. And I believe it was Sarah that actually had to keep on going and just, no, get this guy in, just have him do one fight. And then when he saw that, Joss, they actually sacked the original stunt.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:10:50.089)
I remember because obviously when we were putting together some of the promo videos for this episode that you guys recorded, I was going through some of the stuff available on YouTube and looking at different shots of him sort of back in the day, teaching and fighting and my goodness, the level of skill, was like, wow, this is amazing.

Cal Macdonald (01:10:51.535)
coordinator.

Cal Macdonald (01:11:06.649)
Yes.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:11:11.307)
So it baffles me, I mean it doesn’t because Joss Whedon, but like it baffles me that he wouldn’t even consider that.

Cal Macdonald (01:11:13.572)
then

Cal Macdonald (01:11:17.913)
And to offset all the heartbreaks, there is that lovely story we talked about before we started recording. This is what led to Jeff marrying Sophia Crawford, was Buffy’s stunt double in that infamous shot. Because we asked him, like, what’s the one shot that was almost, you know, really did some serious, and it was that shot in Werewolf where Buffy’s caught in the net. At the time, think, Fiancé did that and she…

Rhiannon Eliza (01:11:30.669)
Yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:11:46.051)
Did she break her spine now Alayna? I’m trying to remember.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:11:48.605)
No, no, no, no, but…

Rhiannon Eliza (01:11:48.813)
No, no, no, no, but… She managed to, at last minute, like, offset the big… Yeah, grab something and avoid the biggest damage, but it was still very dangerous. God bless. Hooray!

Cal Macdonald (01:11:50.959)
She was very seriously hurt, I knew it.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:11:52.966)
She managed to, at last minute, offset the big… Yeah, grab something and avoid the biggest damage, but it was still very dangerous,

Cal Macdonald (01:11:55.747)
crap.

Cal Macdonald (01:12:01.494)
Yeah. And then it was said as she was waiting to be assessed in the hospital, that’s when Jeff finally decided to propose to her. So this is the season of Heartbreak after. So please go watch that episode. You’ll find some really interesting behind the scenes stuff. And the other interesting thing he says is like when she started going out with Freddie and how everyone thinks she’s the kickass one and Freddie’s like this wimpy guy. he said in real life, they’re completely opposite, like

Sarah’s a very quiet, book warming, nerdy girl who would not get into a fight, whereas Freddie’s actually a martial artist and all that. He would kick your ass. You just say it’s funny how people see them in real life. And just…

Rhiannon Eliza (01:12:36.449)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but. That’s amazing. yeah, definitely. Definitely, guys. Do check that episode out with the Jeopardy.

Cal Macdonald (01:12:46.617)
And there’s just maybe a flippant question, but is there any person on earth that’s attracted to men that’s not in love with Spike at some point? Yes, think even, Graham, think we can speak as straight guys, even we would go, yeah, we’d go there, yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:13:01.147)
The is, the thing that I always ask myself when it’s, you when I happen onto men like that

Graeme (01:13:04.717)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Cal Macdonald (01:13:12.015)
just.

Graeme (01:13:12.528)
Yeah.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:13:14.216)
The thing is, the thing that I always ask myself when it’s, you know, when I happen onto men like that, do I want to date them or do I want to be them?

Rhiannon Eliza (01:13:22.255)
Do I want to date them or be them? Yes, it’s a really important question because I tell you what, obviously we find out where he gets the coat from later on and that has its own trauma attached, but the coat was good. I know why he took it. The coat was pretty great and I would very much like that coat too. Yeah, yeah, I feel that. feel that. Did you now? What?

Cal Macdonald (01:13:25.465)
Yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:13:42.335)
And one last…

Graeme (01:13:42.939)
I tried to get that quote. I failed miserably, yeah. I was completely… Because I was completely the wrong shape.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:13:49.804)
What do mean tried? Why did you stop trying? You must get this coat!

Cal Macdonald (01:13:56.687)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:13:57.135)
Never. I disagree. Absolute disagree. I feel like we need to find you this coat. Watch this space. Watch this space. We’ll get Graham the coat.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:13:58.03)
No.

Graeme (01:13:59.11)
Didn’t have the cheekbones and now don’t have enough hair. So, you know, it’s fine though.

Cal Macdonald (01:14:03.144)
It’s

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:14:09.544)
Yes.

Ha ha.

Graeme (01:14:12.955)
One last spike question from me before we wrap up. How do think it would have went if the original first choice had been cast?

Cal Macdonald (01:14:13.605)
Okay, out.

Graeme (01:14:26.523)
Do know who was?

Rhiannon Eliza (01:14:27.183)
is a now one second you do you carry on carry on carry on don’t don’t keep us in suspense I’ve got I feel like I’ve got a fact about this somewhere yes yes

Graeme (01:14:38.959)
Nathan Fillion.

E-e-e-telob

Rhiannon Eliza (01:14:45.611)
And you know what, it’s like, I, so obviously big, fire, fun, love, but personally, I just, was trying to have a Google that see if I could find something about it. But I personally actually loved him as Caleb. I thought that that was a.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:14:45.704)
Graeme (01:14:50.971)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:15:02.239)
Again, another unsettling religious, not just a character like we had with Luke in the first series. We’ve got this other guy. As Caleb, thought he was… Because he’s a very handsome man. And also, at the time, have been well known for these kind of things. It was interesting because I don’t know if I would felt the same way about Spike.

Graeme (01:15:08.571)
Mm-hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:15:27.735)
I just don’t think I will. think James Masters just was, embodies is. And whilst I love Nathan Fillion very, very much, I just don’t know if it would have had the same… I don’t know if it would have hit the same, actually.

Graeme (01:15:31.248)
Yes.

Graeme (01:15:42.456)
See, that’s who I am because I’m huge fan of Nathan Felly and you know, so much good.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:15:47.991)
And also you couldn’t tell me with a straight face that Cecily wouldn’t have chosen Nathan Fillion just based on the fact he was Nathan Fillion. Like you can’t tell me that, like Halle would have had to, she would have made that work. Whereas James Masters, when he had his old hairdo with the look, I loved him, don’t get me wrong, big stamp. But like, I can see why that is slightly more believable. And then also him stepping into this bad boy look because it’s like he has grown into himself.

Graeme (01:15:57.029)
Yeah.

Cal Macdonald (01:15:58.341)
you

Graeme (01:16:13.54)
Yeah.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:16:15.983)
and this is who he is kind of thing. It’s it’s interesting. just, yeah, I don’t think it would have carried the same. Like I just don’t. And obviously just James. Chef’s kiss. Couldn’t have been anyone else. Absolutely not.

Cal Macdonald (01:16:29.413)
You

It’s one last thing. I’ve been running an audience poll as we’ve been talking and there’s a tiebreaker. So you guys will get to be the authority on this subject. So the most heartbreaking moment of season two is Inger losing his soul, Giles finding Jenny’s body, Buffy being forced to kill Inger or Buffy leaving Sunnydale. I’m not going to tell you what’s tying right now. So I’ll just let you vote without. Rhiannon, your vote.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:16:59.848)
Hmm.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:17:03.417)
I think, and I don’t know if this is just, as I said, I’ve watched Buffy throughout stages of my life. I think now if I was watching it, I think Giles finding Jenny- I mean I think it’s always hit for me genuinely because of just the cruelty and the just reckless hate and yes, like what Buffy went through when Angel lost his soul was-

horrifying and it made me feel cold like physically cold inside but like there’s something about that where you can just see i don’t know i don’t know i don’t know if it’s if if it’s just the older i get i don’t know but i think i might have to say the end of passion kind of comes out of nowhere

Cal Macdonald (01:17:52.367)
Hey, Elena, your boot.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:17:54.889)
Yeah, same choice. I think when Buffy has to sacrifice Angel, it’s awful. yeah, also, even like, as I age, watching it is like easier, but it’s still kind of like, But it’s what creates Buffy. Like she’s, she was made to make these sacrifices. So in a way it makes her stronger, although I wish for her she wouldn’t have to go through it, of course.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:18:12.239)
It’s what creates Buffet, she was made to make the sacrifices, so in a way it makes her stronger, although I wish for her she wouldn’t have to go through it of course. Whereas the story of Giles and Jenny, those are just two random people who are in love and then it doesn’t happen for these awful reasons.

Graeme (01:18:18.245)
Mm-hmm.

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:18:24.733)
Whereas the story of Giles and Jenny, those are just two random people who are in love and then it doesn’t happen for these awful reasons. And it’s almost like Giles is this father figure, but then he gets his own individual story and then that’s just snatched away from him and that’s just so hard to watch.

Cal Macdonald (01:18:44.527)
Mm-hmm.

Cal Macdonald (01:18:56.364)
and cream.

Graeme (01:18:57.851)
It’s a clean sweep on that 100%. I think with the other options, there’s not that level of cruelty attached to them directly. Whereas this was a conscious choice made by Angelus specifically to Giles, to hurt Buffy indirectly by hurting Giles. It’s… yeah… Going right back to…

Cal Macdonald (01:18:59.949)
Yeah.

Graeme (01:19:27.981)
episode 2 of the season where Giles is bumbling his way through practice and asking it out to there. Just that whole lot, it’s properly heartbreaking. Easy choice for me.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:19:29.423)
two of the seasons, which I use is bumbling his way through practice and asking him out to be there. Just that whole lot of stuff will happen. end of passions. Yeah, end of passions. End of passions I think will always be the biggest heartbreak of season two for us.

Cal Macdonald (01:19:36.357)
Mm-hmm.

Cal Macdonald (01:19:44.612)
Okay.

Cal Macdonald (01:19:48.207)
So with that, it’s ranking time. So just go through using the same order.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:19:53.709)
Rankin’ time for episodes for our favourite… for seasons. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I was gonna say, let’s build it back up. Let’s build it. Let’s leave on a good note, people. I was like, no, no, no, not at all. I just feel like I’ve really got into my feels there. I’m like, Jenny! Like, yeah, no, no, Right, okay. All these sadnesses aside, let us remember that these are some of the reasons why Buffy becomes such an important thing to us all. It’s why we feel so strongly for these characters. We feel like we know them. We’re a part of them.

Cal Macdonald (01:19:55.937)
No, Yeah, the season, right, kid?

Graeme (01:19:58.128)
so far.

Cal Macdonald (01:20:02.776)
Thanks.

Graeme (01:20:03.536)
Ha

Rhiannon Eliza (01:20:20.495)
We’re here as the Scoobies, there’s a reason for that. season two for me.

It could actually be my favourite season if it wasn’t for a couple of these key episodes but whenever anyone asks me what’s your favourite season I do say season 2 but I’m not sure if it is. I feel like I might have another season that will come in.

and will come into its own but it’s actually really hard for me to decide here. I would… is it my favourite season? Is it not? It might be my second favourite season. It might. But it’s a real clincher for the top prize, I’m not gonna lie. Anyone else? Elena, what are you saying?

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:21:05.736)
So second place, really good season. I just can’t get over these just beaten inserts. They’re just taking it down.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:21:10.154)
Really good season, I just can’t get over these Joss Whedon inserts. They’re just taking it down. I have to agree it’s a sad it’s a sadness but it’s Graham what about yourself? favorite? favorite? See, see look at us we were less aligned on the on the first season we we had to sort of battle it out but I think

Graeme (01:21:28.283)
Second favourite season.

Rhiannon Eliza (01:21:38.519)
I think yeah, you’re right. Absolute nail on the head there, Elena. Like if we are talking about strengths and weaknesses, alas, Joss’s self inserts really crack it down. also, yeah, just this kind of like disconnection from the characters and the storyline we all know and love. But then on the flip, obviously we have such compelling stories, relationships, new characters, development, all this stuff coming in. As you say, like Willow’s developing, we’re meeting new people, Giles…

has a tragic but an independent little story going on. And yeah, we just see a lot more from Buffy and as she’s very much kind of starting to come into her own. So yeah, must admit, season two, you have been a pleasure. I don’t doubt we will talk of you again with much love and sorrow at times. But yeah, I think that’s everything from us.

Cal Macdonald (01:22:25.447)
Yeah

Cal Macdonald (01:22:34.543)
Yeah, and it’s just to point out all the Joss Whedon, we’re planning an epilogue episode once we reach the end to talk about some of these issues a bit more in depth because we want to just focus on the episodes at the time. We do know we have to acknowledge some of that stuff as well.

Cal Macdonald (01:22:55.693)
Yeah. yeah, there’ll be some supplementary episodes as well.

Graeme (01:23:02.158)
You

Cal Macdonald (01:23:04.815)
Yes.

Okay everyone, thanks very much for tuning in. Thanks to your Hebridean Scooby gang as well. As always, master of efficient violence. That’s your catchphrase. That’s sticking with you. All right, thanks everyone and we’ll see you again very soon. Bye.

Graeme (01:23:16.283)
You

Rhiannon Eliza (01:23:16.559)
Absolutely. See ya bye bye.

Graeme (01:23:19.291)
You

Alena Bihan-Gallic (01:23:26.376)
Thanks.

Cal Macdonald (01:23:28.921)
And don’t leave yet.