The Ultimate Debate: Alien vs. Aliens — A Definitive Franchise Ranking
Welcome back to the podcast for an epic, feature-length deep-dive! We are tackling one of the most beloved, yet most divisive, sci-fi/horror sagas in history: the Alien Franchise. This week, we aren’t just grazing the surface; we’re establishing the definitive Alien Franchise Ranking. We’re heading down to Hadley’s Hope to settle a debate that has torn fans apart for decades. This exhaustive episode covers every film, from the 1979 classic through the polarizing prequels, giving each entry a fair, critical assessment.
Alien vs. Aliens: Horror Masterpiece or Action Spectacle?
The core question remains: Alien vs. Aliens—which film is truly the superior masterpiece? Consequently, we meticulously compare and contrast Ridley Scott’s 1979 original. That film was a claustrophobic, slow-burn horror experience; it perfected the “haunted house in space” trope. It also has Roger Christian’s “Used Future aesthetic he employed on Star Wars” We discuss the masterful use of silence, shadow, and H.R. Giger’s nightmarish bio-mechanical design to create an atmosphere of paralyzing dread.
In contrast, James Cameron’s 1986 follow-up (After he kickstarted another renowned franchise) was a pulse-pounding, action-packed thrill ride. Furthermore, it completely redefined the term “sequel” and introduced the iconic Colonial Marines. Aliens brilliantly shifted genres, turning the single creature into a terrifying swarm, giving the audience a feeling of relentless war rather than isolated terror. We debate the merits of Sigourney Weaver’s groundbreaking performance as Ripley in both films. She transforms from a survivalist civilian into a hardened warrior and adoptive mother, earning her place as one of cinema’s greatest heroes.
We look at how the Xenomorph evolved from a solitary symbol of terror to a swarm-based military threat. Is your loyalty with the chilling suspense of the Nostromo, or the explosive mayhem of Acheron? Ultimately, the winner of this central clash determines the foundation of our Alien Franchise Ranking. We lay out the case for both sides, leading to our definitive winner in the Alien vs. Aliens showdown. The differences in directorial vision and thematic approach couldn’t be starker, and this division remains the great source of friction among fans.
Ranking the Full Saga: From Alien 3 to Covenant
However, the debate doesn’t end with the classics. After all, we continue our journey by tackling the rest of the saga. Admittedly, the franchise started incredibly high, but at times, it went disappointingly low. We fearlessly dive into the most controversial entries.
For instance, we discuss the bleak, flawed genius of Alien 3. David Fincher’s theatrical debut, though studio-mangled, offers a genuinely nihilistic vision and a unique setting, despite its controversial decision to undo the happy ending of Aliens. We also assess the highly stylized, sometimes ridiculous nature of Alien: Resurrection. Jean-Pierre Jeunet brought visual flair, but the cloned Ripley and the Newborn monster proved to be a narrative bridge too far for many viewers, causing the film to sink further down the overall Alien Franchise Ranking.
Moreover, we tackle the complex, philosophical messiness of the prequels, Prometheus and Alien: Covenant. Did the prequels successfully connect to the original films? Or did they only succeed in raising questions no one wanted answered, shifting the focus from the creature to the creator? We analyze why these later entries failed to capture the primal terror of the originals, often substituting horror for pseudo-religious and philosophical musings that didn’t quite land with the mainstream audience. The prequels offer a visually stunning, but narratively frustrating, chapter in the saga.
Hope for the Future: Romulus and the Blomkamp Files
Finally, we look ahead and reflect on what could have been. We share our tentative hopes and fears for Fede Álvarez’s upcoming film, Alien: Romulus. We discuss whether this new, standalone effort can recapture the magic and dread that defined the early films, especially given its focus on claustrophobic space horror. An where it could land in the Alien Franchise Ranking. The expectation is that Romulus will ignore the baggage of the sequels and prequels, aiming for a simpler, purer fright.
In addition, we pull back the curtain on the great canceled sequel, Neil Blomkamp’s proposed Alien 5. This project aimed to retcon the timeline after Aliens, bringing back Hicks and a military-aged Newt. We dissect the beautiful concept art and reveal why the project ultimately fizzled out, often attributed to Ridley Scott’s focus on his own prequel timeline. Ultimately, we ask what it would have taken to create a sequel that successfully erased Alien 3 and Resurrection from the timeline and whether that would have improved the overall Alien Franchise Ranking.
If you’re a fan of the Xenomorph or just great sci-fi horror, then this is a must-listen episode. Where does your favorite film land in our final list? Tune in now to hear our final, unforgiving ranking!
Full Transcript Outline (Quick Jumps)
00:00 Introduction to the Alien Franchise
01:41 The Masterpiece: Alien (1979)
11:44 The Action-Packed Sequel: Aliens (1986)
25:57 The Controversial Third Installment: Alien 3
32:17 Themes and Character Analysis
33:42 Alien 3: A Misunderstood Film
39:27 Alien Resurrection: Cloning and Controversy
53:20 AVP: The Downfall of Two Iconic Franchises
01:07:08 Prometheus: A Visual Masterpiece with Flaws
01:09:03 Exploring the Mysteries of Prometheus
01:12:27 The Role of the Engineers and Black Goo
01:15:41 Character Decisions and Plot Logic
01:20:01 Reflections on Prometheus and Its Impact
01:21:28 Transition to Alien: Covenant
01:22:52 The Crew’s Journey and Poor Decisions
01:26:14 The Duality of David and the Xenomorph’s Origin
01:30:02 The Alien’s Presence and Film Logic
01:35:16 Frustrations with Alien: Covenant
01:41:06 Hopes for Future Alien Films
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Kenny Mac (00:43.171)
over
Welcome back to OH!CAST the official… And joining me tonight is our good friend Kenny. What’s happening? Absolutely nothing. I am truly no… We’ve got a lot to talk about tonight and we’re gonna go on a deep dive at a… a franchise that reached… that started off so high and went so… very very low. Let’s swap. Well, I think I’ve heard very good things about Romulus. Romulus which…
Podcast the Wocon?
Kenny Mac (00:54.062)
Yeah.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:11.98)
when this goes out it will be showing in the Lanthar a few days afterwards so hopefully this gets you in the mood for it. Yeah I’ve heard good things about Romulus so I’m tentative about it I’m tentative like we said you know because legacy sequels don’t have the greatest reputation like I said I just heard today that Beetlejuice Beetlejuice is good which shocked me to my core. I was always always hoping it was gonna be. Okay well anyway
It’s time for us to talk about the Alien franchise. And where do we, where else can we start? But it’s 1979, I think, isn’t it? Scott’s second ever film, which is unbelievable. I think it was Sigourney Weaver’s first ever lead role. Again, incredible to think of all of this. And what more can you say about Alien? It’s a true masterpiece of film making this. Yep.
It is suspenseful. And it’s utterly gorgeous to look at. Yeah. This is Prime Ridley Scott making these beautiful images everywhere. It’s like if you watch the making of that was included on the DVD box set, think it was the editor saying he felt bad having to cut anything out because every frame was like a beautiful painting he got. So the quick rundown of this one because
I think we only need to explain the plot once because all the films follow the very, pretty much the same plot. So it’s essentially an oil, it’s like a mineral refinery, if I remember right, the Nostromo. They’re traveling through deep space. They’re awoken from their hypersleep and there’s an SOS signal on an alien planet. They go down to investigate and one of the crew, they find an alien ship within it. One of them finds some egg shaped objects.
And of course, being the sensible man he is, when the egg opens up, he pokes his face right in there. And of course, yeah, nothing happens to him and he’s fine. No, no, of course not. The thing jumps out on his face and then we get probably one of the most… Is this the most iconic horror film scene ever? It’s got to be one of them. It’s up there. Yeah. Well, after a few days, the thing that touches drops off and they’re having dinner and this scene. My only regret is I would love to have…
Cal MacD & Kenny (03:36.194)
watched this film not knowing this was going to happen. Well, that’s what happened with the actors. Yeah. From what I remember hearing, they never knew what was going to happen. I think they were told a rough idea, but they weren’t told exactly how it was going to go down. Because I remember they turned the pressure up on all the fake blood and that and Veronica Cartwright got it right in the face and screamed hysterically.
And that’s actually what’s in the film. Like her reaction is actually completely genuine in that. Yeah. I mean, as disgusting and amazing as it is, you would have loved to have just been there just to see their reactions, like in person. It’s just, I would have loved to been in a cinema in 1979 going and just… Because that’s the other thing. Back then, this film would not have been spoiled the way films are now. Oh, I know.
films now before we go and see them. But back then they were just, you know, it’s a creepy horror, sci-fi movie. And just to be there and not know that was about to happen and just sit there in the audience taking that in, that would have just, it’s an experience I’ll never have. Cause even when I watched this the first time and I kind of had a rough idea what was going to happen. And then it’s essentially, it’s basically like a slasher film set on a spacecraft after that.
How can we not talk about H.R. Giger’s credible monster design? You know, when you think about what other monster films at the time, and it still like very rubbery looking suits. then this thing genuinely disturbs you when you see it. It looks real. That’s the thing. Like the amount of detail they put into it. And it looks like it’s real.
And that’s scariest part. not only that, Ridley Scott did a little bit of the Jaws effect. He shot it in dark shadow and you could never, I don’t think you ever see the whole thing at once. And so it just looked like a guy in a suit. Yeah. And that’s just how it’s just so massively short and it just builds the suspense perfectly. And you just get wee flashes and glimpses. And there was this, there was an interview with Ridley Scott and I said,
Cal MacD & Kenny (06:00.238)
He spoke to so many folk who were convinced that the creature kept growing and was getting bigger. But it’s just like the angles he shot everything at. Plus the person that got to play, like in the food. Yeah, was he not like seven feet tall or something? He was just short of it. I think he was professional mime artist, wasn’t he? I think so, but yeah, I mean…
It helps you have someone who can move like that. Yeah. Cause the story was, it was just while they were doing their pre-production, they just went to the pub at Shepperton and Ridley Scott just saw the guy and did the old, do you want to be in the movies? And there you go. That’s how he joined the cast. Yeah. Pretty sure the guy was like, like probably thinking what have I gotten myself into when he saw the suit for the first time. Yeah, but it is, it’s…
I mean, it’s we’re just going to gush about this film quite a lot. And the other thing we have to mention is Sigourney Weaver’s performance. Last like 40 minutes, she is on her own. She’s the only human being on the cast that is there on set. Yeah. And she’s just running around corridors, sweating and panicking. But it’s your heart is thumping like it’s that you feel the tension. I think.
Also just the special effects in this film, they’ve barely dated at all. It’s like, it holds up beautifully. I’ve always loved the aesthetic they went for with the ship. Yeah. Like it’s in the future, but it looks like it’s so outdated. Yeah, looks like, except you’ll know this as well. Like if you go to a factory and you step into an engineer’s workshop, what it’s like, and it has that feel. is not…
like 2001, this is just working, this is just a working ship with working people on it. And they even include that in the dialogue, like Gafford Cota’s character, they’re just grumbling about not getting paid enough all the time. The work sucks. Up until then, you never really had that sci-fi. It was always like scientists and doctors and all that, like really intellectual folk.
Cal MacD & Kenny (08:24.846)
You were in space. Yeah, you never really had anyone complaining about their job. It was always the wonder and amazement of space. And then, what other elements? There’s also Ian Holm as the… That was, now, again, I wish I’d been in a cinema to see that when that happens, when it’s revealed. It was because, like most of us, I watched this whole series out of order. I actually watched the second one first.
the
Kenny Mac (08:53.614)
Thank
Then I went to watch the first one much later. So when that happens, yeah, okay, he’s an android, right? That was getting obvious. But yeah, it’s like, well, it’s hard to talk about that because we’re going to be comparing and contrasting the first two. The only weak part, everyone’s point out with a special effect, is when the ship blows up, it looks a bit naff really, if that’s your only… Yeah, it’s like a very, very small thing to complain about. And then, and…
The only
Cal MacD & Kenny (09:24.928)
Also the score in this is, again, it’s just beautiful. it’s, you listen to it on its own. It’s unnerving and it’s weird at times, all these kind of bizarre noises. It’s a Jerry Goldsmith score and it’s, like, it’s, think they’ve described as being poetical score. Cause it’s not just big loud kind of horror cues and that it’s like, anyway, yeah, we’ve gushed about it.
It’s so difficult. It’s even more difficult to talk about good. The problem is you can’t talk about this without spoiling it. Yeah. Like we’ve gone over like the, you know, the basic part of what happens at the beginning. Yeah. You know, but like it’s, you have to, you have to watch it. You have to experience it. And watch. And also another thing is watch this with a really good sound system if you can. And with
because there’s like bits where I’ve I mean I used to have a really good 5.1 sound system it’s in storage I have to get it set up again but it’s the bits that are really incredible is when you see outside on the planet and it’s like howling gales and then they just cut to the inside of the ship and it’s almost complete silence and on a good sound system it’s so the dynamics are just
Amazing on this. So how are we going to rate these films Kenny? We didn’t discuss this before we went on here. I know we should have I think for a bad film, it’s going to be game over man. I think that’s More than that could be the only rating for the for the bad ones and for the good ones. There’s I kind of think of a I know in the pipe five by five Yeah, which is sort of the second for this one thing another thing I could
probably marked down this film, it’s not the most quotable dialogue wise. No, it’s not. In fact, the dialogue is pretty just serviceable for the film. It’s there just to give you a feeling just all these are working folk and not much else. It’s not like interesting kind of quotable dialogue you’re going to get. Yeah, it’s more, I don’t know how to explain it. Yeah. But with that, we can move on.
Cal MacD & Kenny (11:44.878)
1979 and I think it was… 86, yes 7 years it was. Oh excuse me.
Excuse me there. Oh, something just came up in my throat. So seven years go on. And then the backstory was, it was a little known director called James Cameron who was given the job of writing the second Alien film. And essentially they said, well, if your film that you’re doing right now is any good, we’ll let you do this one. And that just happened to be a wee thing called The Terminator, which I think did all right for him. I think so. Yeah, I think it was okay. Yeah, it was all right. But I needless to say,
That went ahead and so we got Aliens and James Cameron being James Cameron. He did this very clever idea for the sequel, which was it’s essentially the same, but radically different. was, I was watching a video earlier on that was talking about, um, was talking about aliens and James Cameron. Yeah. He basically just took alien.
upped everything but wanted to keep as much of Ridley Scott’s cinematography in it. So he studied everything that Scott done, all his entire style and kept as much of that in Aliens as he could. Which I think is really cool because at the start between the opening credits where you’re seeing everything is exactly as it is.
from the end of the first one. when I heard that, I thought that was pretty cool. I’ve always loved that level of detail in these films. Yeah, when you get nice continuity like that. And also, it’s like the way they set this up, it’s also a good way to explain the different look of the film and how much more modern this one would look compared to the 70s. There’s been a gap of 57 years. So yeah, 57 years I think it is. Ripley’s been…
Cal MacD & Kenny (13:53.61)
in hypersleep and she’s the salvage team pick her up. Woken up she tells the company Whale and Yutani that they are the previous ship. She tells the story they don’t believe her and she is yeah her license has taken off her working space again but then they hear the original planet from alien they’ve lost communication and they go there with that
of Marines and we’ll probably have to go through every single one of these Marines because every one of them is just the coolest, kick-ass, quotable person you’ve ever met with one really stealing the show. But they get there and yep, the aliens are taken over and as before, more aliens, more guns, explosions, just more, more, more and it’s done in such, just execute. It’s just Vietnam and space after that, which is what James Cameron was after.
plus probably one of the most hateable characters as well. Yes, which is interesting because if I remember that actor as a comedian wasn’t he? I think so yeah. Yeah like Burke who basically sold the whole colony out. Is it so well he’s out such a stereotypical 1980s kind of yuppie type as well. just does it so well. Yeah he is so hateable, so punchable.
How much time do we have? Can we go through all of these Marines? Well, I’ll go through the Marine ones. We’ve got a phone. Yeah. He, and again, this is the thing, the dialogue in this film is so good. It’s everyone, could quote every single one of them perfectly. was a, what’s his first line? He was a day in the Marine Corps, a day in the farm. And he is actually the only one who was actually, he was, he’s a, he did service in the military, if I remember right.
poor.
Cal MacD & Kenny (15:48.558)
and he was brought in to make them look more like a military unit. didn’t know that. Yep, that is very true. So, we’ve got Ape Hoon, then we’ve got Corporal Hicks, done by James Cameron, regular Michael Bean. Yeah, who we neglected to mention was in Terminator. Yes, we did. Well, we talked about Kyle Reese, but we did mention it was Michael Bean, though. I don’t think we did. we completely… Sorry. He plays one of the punks when T-800 comes back and…
He’s one of the first at the T-800 Coast. You’re thinking of Bill Paxton there? Yeah, yeah, that’s who I’m thinking about. Michael Bean we’re on about right now. Oh, right, sorry. Yeah, I was getting confused. I’m sure we mentioned Kyle Reese in that one. Yeah. Michael Bean, Corporal Hicks, the very cool, calm, he’s not as cocky and full of himself as the other ones. No. But Stay Frosty, I think that’s his favourite. And Eat Us, which, you know that Eat Us scene?
If you again, I’ve watched the Living Daylighter, the making of documentaries and that was actually filmed in reverse because he said when they tried doing it forward, he couldn’t, kept missing the alien’s mouth with a gun. He said it’s actually a difficult thing to do that. Yeah, because I think the, the alien’s like head is just behind the door. Yeah. Or was it trapped in the door? It was trapped in the door and coming through, but he said the alien’s head, it’s not actually that
think of a target and so he kept missing it when he was going to put the shotgun in its mouth and they did take after take and James Cameron just put it in right and take it down right we’ll just reverse that I was just like that’s old-school kind of classic filmmaking so on to the the rest of the Marines Vasquez yeah Jeanette goes in another James Cameron regular as well yeah he too and in Titanic yeah
Yeah, T2, she is the stepmother of John Connor and Titanic, she is one of the passengers. Can’t remember, you see her on the bed with her kids as the water’s rushing in. She’s doing a prayer with them. To be honest, I never watched Titanic. All right. Anyway, it’s worth it. She’s worked with James Cameron quite a bit. Give us a line from Vasquez now. let’s rock. Oh, my mind’s gone blank. Let’s rock. And there’s also the exchange with Hudson. Have you ever been mistaken for a man?
Cal MacD & Kenny (18:10.408)
No, which leads us on to the guy who stole the show on this one, Bill Paxton himself. As Hudson. Yeah. I just every line is gold from this guy. I know some folks say he’s he overacts and all this, but he is perfect. That’s what we love. Yeah. I think in these films, you always have one soldier who is over the top.
full of himself. And then he falls apart when it hits the fan. And yeah, Haxman was the perfect casting for it. There’s too many lines you could quote from every single, but of course it’s gotta be Game Over Man. That’s just quoted everywhere that, like any connection to this film. It’s always Game Over Man, Game Over. And like he was saying whenever he was out in the streets,
People will literally just shout at him. Yeah, and he did love that and sadly he’s no longer with us. He wasn’t that old. No, no. He was just in his late 50s or early 60s and it’s quite sad. Always sad and I think that will be the main ones I would pick out. Gorman. Gorman, he’s their brand new lieutenant and he’s basically character essentially. He’s useless. Yeah, but…
What can we say? Sigourney Weaver, I think this is the role that defined Ripley really. Yeah, you… It’s good in the first one. This is more… You get more idea of who Ripley is as a human being in this one. Also adds to the fact that basically the first three Alien films is everyone ignores Ripley and pays for it. She’s the only one who speaks sense and if they’d all listen to Ripley, like they would all be okay. Like in the first one…
He says, we’re not letting you in because of quarantine. they’re like, yeah. They’re just like, no, let them in. You know, and she’s like, no, we’ve, know, we have protocols. We can’t just let them in. And then they let them in and well, everything happens. So like, again, what more can you say about this? a design is good. And the other thing, like what James Cameron did, he was bringing in new ideas into this world.
Cal MacD & Kenny (20:34.798)
Queen alien is just an astounding, but that’s Stan Winston at his best there. Yeah. Yeah. When you see it, you know, like the full body. that’s it’s just, it’s so well shot, perfectly edited. Ripley goes to save Newt, the wee girl that they find. We’re trying to be skimpy on the plot here so you can figure it, find it for yourself.
You’re going through the UDNS and then they turn round and suddenly it’s all quiet after all the fury and it’s just the noise goes down and you’re like what’s happening? I remember the first time I saw this what’s everything stopped and then it’s just you see the egg and then you you look up and the camera just keeps going and going and this thing is just massive in front of them and I know it’s so hard when he’s and then the score in this one I think
Is this the best Alien movie score? It’s definitely the most used. Like everything in this film is referenced and used so much. Yeah. I do prefer the first film score. Right. It’s like I, yeah, I just, because I think it’s action movie scores, know, music scores. I don’t really, there’s very, very few that I like. Yep. Yeah. think bizarrely it’s
The problem with that started with this one, because this is almost like the template for every action from score afterwards. You know, the really heavy driving percussion and also that famous Bishop’s Counting music, is used in every trailer for the next few decades. And it’s kind of bizarrely what you’re saying is probably a symptom of this, what they did here. Yeah. Also one more character, the robot in this one, always awesome, Lance Henriksen. Yeah.
I just, love him. I love him and everything. Loved him in Millennium. Remember that? I didn’t really watch that too much. Highly recommend this. And also the first time I watched this was on ITV, which means got the glorious ITV edit of a film. Yeah. Plus all the breaks. All the breaks. I actually remember what age was I? And my mum stayed up to watch it because she was unsure about me watching such a scary film.
Cal MacD & Kenny (23:01.268)
She doesn’t like horror films herself, but at the end she would say, that was so good. And she just said, said, what did you like about it? It was a woman and she kicked, she kicked everyone’s butt in it. I said, well, it’s one of the all time action stars ever. I think we’re like really stuck. But the other thing with this one, that’s the one now that all the every kind of game book.
comic is nearly always set in the universe of this film. of it and the feel of it was so iconic. there is just so many comics and games that have just used this film as its template. Yeah. Like the whole like the whole Marines thing, you know. Yeah. The Colonial Marines was just. Yes. Like that sort of like space, you know, soldier type, you know, concept was.
birth from from this I think. Yep. I mean and also to tell you how similar the two films are, they end with Sigourney Weaver getting rid of the final alien. The same way but just in a much bigger way the second again because well we can’t say that iconic line but the final fight with the power loader and the Queen alien. Yeah. Again just and there’s that classic Sigourney, you know the one.
We don’t have to say it here, but yeah, it’s like, yeah, at least if you’re going to take any way, get these two films in your collection and watch the crap out of them. Cause I think these two just had such an influence on everything that came after those so many knockoffs of this years to come. Like Species is one for example. Yeah. When, when people start writing, you know,
sci-fi action, sci-fi horror, they have to have to go back to Alien and Aliens because if you want to do it right, pull from these. Yeah, these two just wrote the book on kind of sci-fi horror. Even if it’s even something small, you know. Yeah. You can even see like to see the thing, which is an amazing film in its own right.
Cal MacD & Kenny (25:27.756)
You can see that’s borrowing from Alien in its own way as well. Which feeds us. I think we’re going to lead into the big one now. Like T1 and T2, this is the debate that goes on. Alien or Aliens, Kenny? No. I think this is more difficult than T1 and T2 to be honest. Yeah. Both have so much going for them. They’re both great. They’re both just go-to films. They’re…
and they both scratch a different itch in their own way. Yeah. If you’re wanting just creepy suspense, aliens, if you’re wanting suspenseful pounding action, aliens is where you go. Yeah. I mean, in terms of just sheer rewatchability, like you could put it on any time, I think aliens would nudge that. Aliens would, I’m in a specific mood. I want to turn the lights down and be scared. Yeah. Where it’s aliens, you could just pop it in any time just for…
the sheer enjoyment of it I think. It’s the perfect film to basically get your friends over, get the popcorn out, get the drinks, just stick it on and you’re all gonna be loving it. Yeah. So I am pretty sure this one’s in the pipe 5×5, is it? Yeah. Yeah, I took the close up. So from 1986 it’s another 60 years. And also
This is a try and get and watch the director’s cut of Aliens as well. There is so much there’s some really good stuff added. The only part I have issue with is the bits of youth youth family. I think it was better. We just went to the complex and didn’t see any of that. It’s kind of but don’t spend so many. I didn’t really think it was much point and seen it. Yeah, it seemed a wee bit redundant because it’s kind of like you’ve seen it from replace point of view and they don’t know yet that.
We kind of know it’s the aliens, but you’re still kind of thinking, well, might not be, they might be telling the truth. Even though you know well, there won’t be a phone, but it still works better from that suspense kind of point of view there. But anyway, we’re going on six years and this is, this is the controversial one of the first three, isn’t it? It’s splits of people down the middle. And this is the one also, if you’re into making of documentaries, watch this, it is fascinating. This is just how.
Cal MacD & Kenny (27:53.762)
how studios can mess things up enormously. remember I was watching the making of and think the amount of writers that they had in for this film was… Also, William Gibson, the famous author, he did a draft of it, which I think has been turned into a graphic novel now. You can go and watch it. You can read it. And Vincent Ward came up with, think, if you’re into your filmmaking, they said…
one of the most interesting films never made, The Wooden Planet in Space idea. That would be a strange one. Yes, and it’s almost so strange. think it would have worked. eventually they kind of kept elements of all of that. And then so many directors left as well. think Rennie Harland was involved. Then it was Vince Ward. And then they got Dave Fincher, who had only directed some music videos at that point, wasn’t I think so.
and was only 26 years old and by all accounts of the cast, they just threw him into this. There wasn’t a completed script and they almost just said, right, you make this work somehow now. Yeah, it was an absolute mess of a film. I think it was for to make anyway. think it’s a testament to Dave Fincher that he got what he got out of it, that he managed to make it into what it was. When you hear about what the whole atmosphere and environment around it was just…
horrible to deal with, like everyone hated making this film. But the basic plot is it’s another few years later and the start of this film was controversial on its own. Newt and Hicks die. Off screen. Off screen. And the interesting story is Michael Bean, he was told by someone they were over at Pinewood Studios and they saw like a dummy of him made up with an alien with a chest buster coming out. Michael Bean was incensed by it.
And he threatened to the film if they used that. Then eventually he settled on, we’ll use your photo at the start. And Michael Bean said he got paid twice as much for the use of that photo than his whole salary on Aliens. But he said, again, it was just an unpleasant time for everyone. But at the killing of Newton Hicks was just… Yeah. But in a weird way, it sets the very bleak tone of this film. Yeah. Well, with Newt…
Kenny Mac (30:09.048)
That.
Cal MacD & Kenny (30:21.262)
the actors that wanted to quit acting. I think right after Aliens. You could have easily gotten around that. You could have just got an actress that’s like six years older and just did a fault in her hypersleep tube and she’s aged. You could have easily done something like that. That’s the thing with sci-fi. There’s always ways to write around it, but just killing them off was just…
survived all that just to get killed off screen as well. And it’s like so conflicting because it sucks, but also it does nicely set up the tone that this film is going to be miserable to watch. But they crash on a prison planet. And the other thing was there was at least two alien eggs on board somehow. Never explained us how those eggs got on. The alien queen didn’t have enough time. She didn’t have her egg lane.
the part that need the eggs. Yes, you didn’t have the egg sack. But I think there is a novel that says that some folk burst onto the ship and somehow there’s some convoluted story that that’s how the eggs ended up. The ship was broken into at some point. That’s a lot of wreck. That’s a lot of wreck on it. It’s still I even remember when I was 13 or 14 watching this. How did that egg get on there? Tell me. It’s like, well, in the in.
In some of the comics you see the aliens actually transporting the eggs themselves, like the xenomorphs. So maybe? They were never near the drop ship though. It’s like… It’s a howl. But anyway, getting out of that, I will say, think of the film is essentially the Clashland and this time it’s in a prison facility on a far away planet. Neat idea on its own is that the people were going to be…
It’s like I say, the people you’re with are kind of rapists and paedophiles. It’s like, how do I root for characters like this? You want them to die. But at the same time, the cast, especially the guy that lives to the end, Marsh, he does pull off. He’s like, all right, there’s something redeemable. And also, what’s the late prisoner’s name again? Dutton’s character. you get the feeling he’s a decent guy as well, but
Kenny Mac (32:41.166)
I’m
Cal MacD & Kenny (32:46.324)
It’s like, how do you root for these horrible people? Like everyone in this facility, they’re all awful people. It’s like, I think they were just reacting to the second film. Well, they were all likable characters. The only way we can go down now is have everyone just be just despicable. Yeah, there’s like a few in there that aren’t as bad as the rest, you know. But depending which version of the film, the alien either comes out of a dog or a nog.
Depending which version you watch. I’ve always seen the one with the dog. Right. It’s worth watching the one with the ox. The assembly cut is 40 minutes longer than the theatrical cut. And it does fill in a lot of gaps in the story. It’s well worth and they fixed all the audio and the music and all that. And it’s well worth watching. It’s not a director’s cut because David Fincher has nothing to do with this film anymore. Yeah.
quite famously he said no one hates this film more than I do. But yeah, we’re on the prison and then as always alien gets around, starts munching folk. I don’t know, there’s things to like in here. It’s like, I feel this film, it’s the parts are way better in the whole. There’s like nice bits here and there that I quite like. There’s the one thing I’ve always hated about this and it’s they use CG for the alien a lot of the times.
And the CG was nowhere near good enough for it. Yeah, it looked… It had this brown colour to it, like this copper colour to it. Yeah, it’s really shiny. Yeah, and then of course you get the actual physical, know, alien. Yeah, and they don’t match in the slightest. Yeah, so I think that’s probably the thing I…
I don’t like about it. Like I, I like this film. I remember I was, I was over at my brother’s and it was on, I think it was like 11 o’clock at night or something. And I thought I’ll see it in years. I’ll give it a watch. It ended. Uh, I think my brother had just come back from work and he goes, you know, what are you watching? I was like, I just watched Alien 3. I was like, it’s a lot better than I remember it. Yeah.
Cal MacD & Kenny (35:08.886)
I think it’s definitely one people warm to more over time. I remember my schoolmates and a lot of them hated this. Absolutely hated the film saying it was garbage and all that. I just put that down to the naivety of youth. None of us knew where this was headed. I don’t think I didn’t like it the first time I saw it. I was kind of on the fence about it at first. And again, it’s like for most folks, like the
bits here are just way better in the whole. But then when you watch the assembly version, it does kind of kind of glue together a bit more. I would definitely say find the assembly version and watch that. And I think you might get a new appreciation for it. But so I don’t know. It’s like and it still divides. I think people are warming to it more now. it’s like it’s like you’re saying, yeah, Dave Fincher did do something quite cool here.
Because the film does, it’s got a really unique look to it, the whole cinematography, the lighting and the camera angles. It’s really… I’ve never seen anything like it before or since. And a really lush score by, what’s his name, Elian Goldenthal. The end theme when Ripley dies is just perfect for that. Yeah, spoiler, Ripley dies. But I felt the death was just, oh, that’s the way Ripley should go out. Yeah, this is the thing I hate about
I see the chest burst and she goes down and says, that’s a good ending for Ripley really. Yeah, this is thing I hate most about them killing off Newt. If they could have had the actor come back for this, I think having Ripley protecting Newt throughout the whole film from the prisoners, and then…
that final sacrifice. Yeah. I think with the, with the bond they had in the second one and like her finding out that her daughter, you know, lived to an old age and died, you know, her, her sacrifice would probably have been a lot bigger. Yeah. You know, and it’s one of those things that I think it would have made the sacrifice more important.
Cal MacD & Kenny (37:32.81)
if nude had survived you know yeah it’s like plus when when they’re the whole end sequence with them when they’re whole they’re trapping the alien you know in their plan to kill it i’ve always liked that yep the to get them into the toxic into the bunker isn’t it yeah well that’s why i say watch the assembly cut because that whole sequence is expanded on and it goes very differently and it’s also the gollick character played by paul mcgan
has a much larger part in the assembly cut because I always remember where did Paul McGarnish to suddenly? Yeah. Because in the theatrical cut he just disappears. But in this one it explains a lot more and that. Yeah, I’m not going to spoil it like go watch the assembly cut and do recommend you go out and get a hold of the assembly cut because it’s a massive improvement for me. Still not up to the standard of the other two, but it’s not. I don’t think it’s anywhere near.
as bad as what folk were making out. Plenty to like here. There are some glaring missteps there, but there’s plenty of good in here. I thought that’s a good way to end the trilogy. Definitely the misunderstood child. Yes. The middle child, really. Yeah. So I would give this, this is definitely in the pipe five by five for me. not as strong as the other two, but
It’s a worthy successor all the same. Yeah, it is worth a rewatch. If you haven’t watched in years, it’s definitely worth a rewatch. hopefully you’ll get a new appreciation for it. I say get a hold of the assembly cut and also watch the making of documentary and you’ll get whole appreciation for what they got out of like all the crap they had to deal with behind the scenes, which brings us up to
gain of
Cal MacD & Kenny (39:27.186)
we forgot about Lance Henderson’s other Roland film. Yes, he reappears as not Bishop basically. But we wouldn’t spoil that. Yeah, it won’t spoil that. Although in the assembly version, it’s made quite clear what he is. I’ll say that. There’s some added dialogue and an added scene which actually spells out because it’s like dubious at first. in the other version, I’ll just say it’s made very clear.
So with that, we jump forward to 1997, days of the end of the nineties. As the only real bits I know about the making of this film was, was Joss Whedon wrote the script for Alien Resurrection as I recall. And he submitted it to the producers at Fox and they said, if this gets made, this is going to destroy the franchise. That was very
But they hired up, smelt money and went ahead anyway. So Alien Resurrections, where we’re at, directed again by a really good director, Jean-Pierre Genot, who made Amelie and the City of Lost Children as well. I so, yeah. Yeah. So again, that’s the other thing. These first few films, all the directors were really strong, distinct styles to them. yeah, so this is set
can’t remember how many hundred years after the Alien 3 and they bring Ripley back and it seemed like this was in all sci-fi at the time, cloning. They were obsessed with clones at this point. I remember this so distinctly like all sci-fi involved cloning of some kind at this point. She’s brought back through cloning and you get, she’s on a space station and they’ve mixed her up, there’s alien DNA with her, they extract an alien queen, they make some, they make some eggs.
Two of your mercenaries come in with a mysterious carver which is just human bodies for the facehuggers. They make some aliens and then usual alien shenanigans happen here. Yeah, it’s one of those like so obvious, know, plotting. What’s strange about this film, what’s really strange is Jean-Pierre Janot watches other films. They’re very French basically. But he’s a bloody good director, all the same. But…
Kenny Mac (41:46.776)
Zoom.
Cal MacD & Kenny (41:51.288)
for some reason, and I’ve got to think this is pressure, they took him on, but they said he’s got to make this film very American. Because it does, sadly, big problem is this just fell into very formulaic action territory for me. Yeah, I think they were trying to go for aliens again. Yep, they were trying to go for aliens and maybe, and also with Joe Swede in this, definitely you get…
a Firefly feel out of this as well with the designs maybe and the crew and all that. You will get strong hints of that and I just gotta say this, it doesn’t work at all this for me. It didn’t work then, it doesn’t work now. The one saving grace for me, Ron Perlman, he usually can save a film on his own that guy. He’s kind of like another Michael Ironside, it’s just great having him there.
I would say Ron Perlman. Ron Perlman’s just, he’s always classed that guy. I, Brad, like see Brad Durf tends to play creepy characters. Yep. And this character was just, just at the time, probably the creepiest character I’ve ever seen in play. And this is thankfully we’ve not had another Ripley alien film after this because it’s a Gourney Weaver’s performance and this is weird as hell.
It’s all over the show. One second she’s with the humans, the other side she’s next she’s on the side of the aliens. It’s like, and I get it all, we’re trying to make it ambiguous, but they didn’t seem to settle on a way to do it. There’s just one or the other. It’s quite bipolar, her character, to be honest. And like up until a certain scene, she was very emotionless. Well, and then, yeah. And then
for some reason halfway through she starts wisecracking. Yeah. And she’s never really done that before. She’s had great lines, but she’s never just been one for shooting off quips. Yeah, Ripley was in the first three films, was never like that. She had really good lines and she had a sarcastic streak, but he never just had quippy one liners, which she does here and it just comes out of nowhere sometimes. Yeah.
Cal MacD & Kenny (44:13.462)
And then we have to, in the first two films we had Ian Holm, had Lance Henriksen. And we had Lance Henriksen again in the third one. does appear as Bishop briefly. Henriksen on his own, one of the great Android portrayals in cinema. We get to this, she’s a great actress Winona Ryder. There’s no doubt. She’s fantastic. She was one of the, at that time, like this whole alternative acting scene. She does not work.
She is so flat, I don’t know how they directed her in this but this is her worst acting and like she’s usually very dependable as an actress no matter what but she is just I don’t know what they to get out of her. Up until the reveal that she’s an Android, very unlikable as well. Yeah. I don’t remember liking anything about her.
up until you find out she’s an android and then her her personality just like changes. Yeah. So fast. Like with the bishop it was like he’s a bit mysterious but he’s ultimately he’s kind of more humane and trustworthy than a lot of the humans are. And his demeanor, know personality. Yeah it was just. Don’t change the whole film as well.
They don’t change, but you just get impression of a first, can we trust him? we actually use what he says he is? But this just is so flat. The whole thing really is. And I’m just saying she is so much better. She’s just so miscast. And apparently she begged him for the role just to play alongside Sigourney in this. And then when you got Sigourney, he’s not playing her character correct. It’s just…
And they’re meant to bond somehow, it does not work at all. And like I said, and the crew, they’re meant to be, crew of misfits and mercenaries, okay. But it’s again, don’t really, each of them is just a character trait. They’re not really a personality as such. It’s like, again, go back to the aliens. Each member of that team was clearly defined and you go to their where. Whereas this one, that’s the guy with the guns. That’s the guy in the wheelchair. That’s the guy that does this.
Cal MacD & Kenny (46:35.758)
That’s the captain. That’s the captain’s girlfriend. Yeah. It’s literally, that’s all the roles are. It’s like, and a part outside of Ron Perlman, just he’s the only one who gives his character something and it’s the only one you kind of, and like the humor from him does work. That’s, and then that’s all. It’s like, everyone seems so miscast in this film. Oh, yeah. And then of course,
You you always say, what are they going to introduce something new for the alien? this. Yeah, you know what I’m going with this. So they’ve extracted these new aliens from this kind of alien human hybrid and going on because the DNA makes up. That’s a cool idea. That’s a cool idea on its own. Yeah. For those listening, you’ve no idea how many takes we’ve done this by now. We’re talking about the newborn so much. But needless to say.
wherever this joins onto the last edit, the newborn is awful. It looks terrible. And I’ve, I’ve exhausted all the things we said about it because I’ve forgotten all the outtakes. Yeah. It is slimy, has a big old belly, has long, thin arms and legs. Yeah. And I think as we’re doing a clean episode, we won’t mention the certain features that are edited out in certain areas.
I you know what I’m talking about. But it’s quite notorious what they tried to do there. Yeah, nobody needs to hear that. Yeah, but it’s like the design is terrible. It’s like you’ve gone from Giger who made a truly horrific creature that was still in its own way, like stunning to look at. You look at it, it’s like that’s just incredible design. Whereas this is just awful to look at. And yeah, you might say, yeah, it’s meant to be awful, but
It’s just an awful design, full stop. Absolutely disgusting. I remember when I saw it the first time, was like… What’s happened? This is what they’re going for? It’s like… it’s the whole thing, like I said, the clashing in this home. There’s a very Hollywood mentality and a very French mentality and it’s clashing hard at times. It’s like Gieger, his, the Xenowar design was supposed to take alien and human and put them together. Yeah, that was the original. Yeah.
Cal MacD & Kenny (48:55.98)
And we got the xenomorph with the newborn they’d said, it’s just maybe turn all that inside out. Yeah. And also instead of having it sleek and black and in the shadow, let’s go for a glaring white where you can see all the imperfections of the puppet work here. Yeah. And so needless to say, we’ll just get to the end of this. Well, we’ve recorded this so many times at this point, but it ends with some with a Ripley getting to Earth.
Which on its own, that’s a neat idea but it’s just this version of Ripley is not Ripley as we know her. I will say that. Yep, carry on. The ending has one of the best chest-burster scenes in the franchise. When… When the guy uses the chest-burster on the… Yeah, on the doctor. Yes and no. It’s like, one of those, I think that would work better if you say you were doing an asylum rip-off of Alien. It would be great.
It’s so good because… Alien is… Alien to me is always like kind of a classy kind of film. It’s like a very B-movie concept but made classy by, you know, good directors with visions. But it just comes across as… And all the cam… And it’s like for some reason they seem to go all Sam Raimi in that moment. You know, all the sudden camera zooms and that. The reason I think it’s one is because the Doctor, like Burke, is one of most hateable characters. And it’s just…
You know, I don’t know, it’s just the, the, I can’t remember the name of the guy who’s, who’s got the… Who has the chest brush. But he’s one of those, those actors you see in loads of films. He’s that guy. He’s that guy. I know that guy. Every, every action film has that guy who you see and it’s always a bad guy. What I remember him from is he was also in Seven this guy. He was, yeah, well, we can’t go into
grew some details about Seven either, for keeping this clean. yeah, he’s like, he’s just like one of those actors. it’s him, that guy. That guy that was in, and I’m sure he’s been in Star Trek as well. But yeah. This ends with him on Earth. And it depends. If you watch the director’s cut of this. I saw it probably about 20 years ago now. Yeah, they land on Earth and they step out in Paris cause
Kenny Mac (51:07.715)
It used to say
Cal MacD & Kenny (51:24.074)
Where else? Because the director’s French, obviously. And Paris is a wasteland. Yeah. Army of Darkness style. Yeah, Earth is… it’s just… Yeah, it’s… Yeah, and it’s like, what are they saying? I don’t know what the point is. But anyway, it’s just a terrible, terrible way to end the Ripley character, this. It’s like, you… Like, Alien 3, she got the kind of send off she deserved. And then…
They bring her back. It’s like what they did with Indiana Jones. Last crusade, perfect send off. Indy’s rode off into the sunset and you know, you’re happy, you leave the, you know, yeah, Indy’s kind of, he’s kind of going to go and live a long life, have many adventures. I’m happy with then. Crystal Skull comes along and you’re, no. And it was the same with us. was like Ripley’s gone, she got the good send off, but then they bring her back and it’s just terrible. It’s like, but.
Yeah, this film for me is game over. Yeah, very, very, very, very little to actually like in this film. If I had to say what’s to like, the scene with the multiple clones is quite moving. Yes. one time, Ripley feels like Ripley. Yeah. But at the same time, there’s a problem with that scene. Say, I’m going to put this clone out of her misery by burning her to death. Yeah, which is a… Why don’t just…
Put a bullet in her head and that was… I’m gonna burn her alive. That’s a nice humane way for this poor thing that’s in agony to go. Cause we all know when you burn someone alive, you know, it’s just like over in a second. Anyway, speaking of things of like being burnt alive and hoping it was over in a second, let’s go to the next one. That’s a good segue I think. On to VP now. This was 2005, I think 2004.
Well, we’re all
Cal MacD & Kenny (53:20.032)
Early 2000s anyway. Yeah mid 2000s. Yeah. And so if you really want to feel bad for this and you want to dislike this film even more, at the time there were scripts on the table and Ames Cameron had written a script for Ridley Scott to direct for Alien 5 but they rejected it in favor of doing an AVP movie just because Freddy V-Jason was good. Did it profit.
That doesn’t depress you, I don’t know what I remember seeing the trailer. I remember hearing about it before the trailer and. I’m not gonna lie, I was excited. Yeah, it was one of those I heard who was directing it and was like no, cause he’s only done and let’s face it, Mortal Kombat is not good. Everyone thinks that’s good, but I have rewatched it. It is not.
But people think it’s a legitimately good film instead of an enjoyable film. It’s enjoyable. I love Mortal Kombat. I absolutely love Mortal Kombat. And The Event Horizon, which I genuinely like. That was a genuinely scary film. Love that film. We’ve got a lot of time for that film. After that, his movies were somewhat questionable in quality to say the least.
What he did with Resident Evil, I know you’re a Resident Evil game fan. Do you even watch these films? I have. them Resident Evil, I would not. Other than the fact that they have the liquor, have the nemesis. Umbrella. Umbrella. Wesker. It’s just, it’s, yeah. They could have just called it something else and it would be fine. But they slapped Resident Evil on it. Yep.
And listen, if we keep going off track, because I think we’re just desperate to avoid talking about it. Because it not only ruins the Alien, it also majorly ruined the Predator, this AVP film. And I read the was the 80s or 90s, the AVP comics. And they were good. They were bloody good comics. I’ve got to say that. Plus the reason I was excited for this, not just because it’s Alien versus Predator, it’s because at the end of Predator 2,
Cal MacD & Kenny (55:39.534)
when we see the Xenorph skull, that was just supposed to be just an Easter egg. It supposed to be going anywhere. Then the comics and then this and I was like, they’re actually doing this. And the video game as well, that awesome video game in the 90s. So it was so good that game. This is just, you know how we keep saying these are B movies. This is where they’ve made it a B movie and it’s not even a good B movie.
they made it into a C-movie somehow. Yeah, there was a couple of good bits, but… Yeah. And it’s like, you think back and we’re like, we’ve been very vague on purpose. You don’t have, you’re not going to gain anything by watching this film. We’re telling you right now. really, no. But the cast of characters in this, then you think back to Aliens, that rich, well-defined group of characters and this, and I can’t, all I remember is…
Bud from Trainspotting’s in it. Yeah. And Lance Henriksen’s in it. That’s all I remember. That’s the only two characters I can remember. Colin Sammons in it? Is he? I can’t even tell you anything about the woman who’s in the lead. She has got no character whatsoever. Yeah. And then there’s no character in it that really stands out though. That’s the thing. Except maybe.
the lead alien and the lead predator. Yep. And it like introduces one neat concept at the end. I had problems right at the start was that in Antarctica. you remember Predator 2 when the great Gary Busey says the exact words the predators are attracted to heat. Yeah. And then they say, well, years ago, there was no ice in Antarctica, says, but it’s still
wasn’t tropical or warm. No. It’s just like and yeah and the idea and they said like why did they have to set it in Antarctica? Because they kind of set up like it’s like a Mayan culture they worship the predators in. Why not just set it over there then? Yeah because why was it why is why did they have to go to Antarctica? No one can answer why did they need to set this in Antarctica? Yeah because I think is it in the opening credits you see the the flashback to
Cal MacD & Kenny (58:05.058)
the to the Mayan temple. And that’s halfway through when they have their big long exposition scene. I can remember. can remember it. But it’s like, why go from the Mayan temple, you know? Yeah, it’s to to sit in it in the Antarctica. And then they were like, but this is a Mayan temple. Yeah. Yeah. it’s a Mayan temple in Antarctica. The good bits are like.
The aliens are still practical. They’ve stepped back from the CGI and they look quite good like that. But the predators look terrible in this. Yeah, they have. They’re bulky and muscular and like the predators are meant to be sleek hunters. They are physically because they’re so tall and they’re probably but they’re not stocky like American football players running about which is what they are in this.
I think weren’t the predators supposed to be like unblooded? I have no idea. It was supposed to be like their first hunt. Yeah, but the thing is, what this does wrong and the film should never do this is explain the predators. You don’t need it. Yeah. The first Predator film explained it. You got everything you needed out of it and they didn’t. That was without any clumsy dialogue or anything. You understood them. The same with the alien in the first few films.
He understood the alien, but then they have to do clumsy exposition, back story stuff. But like in Aliens and Predator 2, they didn’t expand too much. They just added wee bits. Yeah, just added, here’s a different kind of predator and here’s a few new weapons. And in Aliens, well, here’s a new alien type and here’s a wee bit about it. And the same with Aliens 3. The alien can bond with other animals. They just nice little additions.
not lengthy explanations of what’s happening and why. And what kills the film is lead woman, whoever you are, I’ve completely forgotten you, and the predator doing a toboggan, trudging down the tunnel. And it’s like, what has happened? And they even try to give a dramatic action music, saying, they’re just doing a toboggan run. This isn’t dramatic, it’s exciting in the slightest.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:00:29.144)
they’re doing the same thing kids have been doing every time there’s It might as well have done what we used to do, probably Kenny. You might have done it here when it was snowing. Your mum and dad would give you like one of those plastic bags and say, there you go, there’s your sledge. Yeah. If they had done that, they would have said, well, that’s a bit authentic to them. But no, the whole toboggan ride down was just, I was like, what’s become of this? And then, like I said,
You’re getting the feeling what we think of this, at the end, facehugger goes on the predator and we’re left with a pred alien. I’m saying, this could be good. Where is this leading? This could be something interesting here. I think we all thought that there’s something to cling onto here. we clung so hard. We clung onto a plastic bag, sludging down the golf course and starting away. So this film is definitely game over.
I wish it hadn’t been game over. I don’t I don’t know. I would quite happily come back to it. Well, there’s only one thing that redeems it and that’s what’s after. Yeah, it’s AVP Requiem. Oh. The darkest film ever made, I think, isn’t it? Because you literally cannot see what’s going on at the time. Yeah. I will say this. I will give it one
One, well no, two tiny good things about it. The Pred alien, even though you don’t really get it too clearly and the premise. and also I like the concept of that predator that comes in to clean up. Like he’s cleaning up the mess that’s been left behind and there’s one, that’s the one decent sequence in the whole film. Just remember when he’s on the sewer letting off the kind of laser trip. Yeah, yeah. That’s actually a genuinely
sequence. Everything else in this film is awful beyond words. It is, if you thought the cast and AVP was bad, they have gone with, and not even in a good way, your most tick, your most generic slasher film and transplant that cast into the most bland actors possible. They are so forgettable and
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:02:51.47)
Not only that, they have, I don’t know if I’ve been unfair to this act, but they have one of the dweebiest characters trying to do an Arnie line at the end. He cannot say get to the chopper that man. He’s not aired that right in the slightest. It’s so hard to talk about this film. Yep. It was directed by the two, I think it was the two special effects guy from AVP, the Strauss brothers.
And this is the only film, if I remember right, that they’ve ever directed and they disappeared after this, quite rightly. Like, I just can’t… And then there is… I’m going to be very sketchy on this. And I’m usually quite resilient. I’ll watch some horrible things. I’ll watch some horrible horror movies. There is a scene in here which is genuinely sickening. And it crosses so many lines of taste. It’s like wine. Yeah.
And then it makes no sense because again, if you notice all these films, I think that the growth cycle of the aliens gets quicker and quicker each time. Yeah. Because there’s this scene where I’m just going to say the alien, it kickstarts its reproduction cycle and then literally five minutes later, there’s full grown aliens running around the building. Yeah, it is strange how fast the aliens
pretty much overrun the Well, I think they grow with how desperate the plot is. I think that’s their growth cycle. And then there’s the end of this film, which was meant to be some kind of cool Easter egg. And I was just like, yeah, yeah, it’s the whale and your tiny corp recovers a predator weapon. I’m think it ties into the predator game, the concrete jungle game. Yeah. But if you’ve not played that game, that seems
Yeah. It’s like one of those, what’s the point? Like everyone’s going, so what, where are you going with this? Yeah. I was saying, I was like, I get, I get why the Yutani company was there because of AVP and then, you know, obviously they’re wanting Xenomorphs, you know, and so, yeah, it’s just the whole film. It’s just so terrible. I paid money for this in the cinema, believe it or not. I was going to watch it and I was like…
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:05:16.27)
just, can someone please turn up the lights? I can’t see anything. Like I know this is a cinema, but oh, it’s just, it is so, and I enjoy bad. We, we, we both kind of, oh, affectionate, just have bad films. Yeah. No redeeming qualities in it. There’s just like tiny seconds where there’s, oh, there’s something sort of interesting, but no, it just got a, it literally just tanked everything good about the alien in this. And the predator. Yeah.
You’d think that when the Predator and the Predator actually start fighting, they’d be like, OK, this is awesome, but no. like that was like the one cool, like I that Predator that’s there to clean up, like he doesn’t care. He’s just there to eliminate the evidence. So that’s an interesting because they probably have to do that in some worlds they might get into. But that was just a neat idea. It didn’t go anywhere. was I’d say we did need to see the Predator home world.
need to see that at all. with this, I think this should have been, and it was really in a way game over for this. Yeah. If you look it up online, there’s that famous interview with Sigourney Weaver where they asked her about the EVP movies and she’s very forthright in her opinion. I’ll just say that. And that’s the woman who made the Alien Resurrection say that. But it is actually cool to talk about this film.
Yeah, it is. We just, we’ve got our advice. You can’t even just ironically or sit back with a few drinks and a few mates and just laugh at this filmish. It’s joyless, it’s drab, it’s bland. It’s just awful. Like just a wretched experience start to finish. It’s… I don’t know. I’m runnin’. I say… Yeah. We’ll just… We’ll end it there with that one.
And we’re coming, we’re at the finish line of this franchise, believe it or not. We’re past the absolute dregs now. Yeah, and so we come to this one. Now this is curious, the background to Prometheus, because at first this was going to be a direct prequel to Alien, and then it wasn’t. And it was, and then it was both at the same time. And it said it’s going to be, it’s like its own wee story set in
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:07:37.722)
Alien Universe. All of that and nice ideas and Ridley Scott’s back on board and then that first trailer came out and I was like holy they’ve got this back on track now. They’ve managed that they’ve well it looks like this could be really interesting all that and you go and watch it and it looks phenomenal this film like any other Ridley Scott film. Just gorgeous to look at. I saw it in
full 3D in an IMAX in Aberdeen and it was mind-blowingly beautiful to look at. You cannot deny this is a stunning, gorgeous looking film. The concepts in it are good. The story and the characters, however, are lacking. Really lacking. There’s some huge logical lapses on behalf of the characters at times. And the basic story is it’s set, well, it’s well before the first film and it’s
I never really got this. You start off in Skye and she sees a cave painting. Is she an archaeologist? She’s a zoologist, I can’t remember. Elizabeth Shaw is the character’s name. And you see her running into a cave and say, it’s an invitation. I was sitting there, but how do you know that? What’s telling you that? And they say, well, they found all these cave paintings and this is an invitation for them to go to this certain planet from the constellations in it. I said, well, but…
How did you reach that conclusion? of? Yeah. What’s telling you they’re wanting you to go there? That is… I don’t know. don’t know who… And there’s just so much stuff like this. It’s just, wait, how did that suddenly… And then, so they find these key paintings, the Wayland company funds a mission, they go off and search. And we get the crew. And again, it’s a crew of who are these people. I’ve forgotten them again. I remember…
Idris Elba is in there just because he’s Idris Elba. He’s one of the coolest men on the planet. He’s there but I can’t remember what he does exactly. I think he was a pilot. Yeah. He’s the captain. What’s he? He’s the captain of the Prometheus, I think. Thanks. I know. I think he was. I know he was a pilot. He’s there and then he suddenly decides to do a kamikaze with a ship for… I don’t know why he does it. I’m still kind of baffled why he suddenly decided to do that.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:09:58.24)
Anyway, they go to this planet and they kind of see one of the ships from the original alien. then, yeah, we’ve also got into Michael Fassbender’s in this. David. And he’s great. And he’s and it’s like, this is getting back to like the Bishop kind of type androids. Someone played it with some nuance here. And again, this is another point I had was see when they meet these engineer creatures, how does David know their language? It said that he studied world languages, was it?
How do you know their language? You’ve never met these folk before. Yeah. And again, well, who are the engineers? Well, if you remember the first one, there’s the space jockey, the weird guy in the chair. That’s who they see did life on earth for some reason. We don’t know yet. It’s never been explained why. see one of them at the dawn of time drinking the black goo and he dissolves and he go and it’s like implied that him falling into this river is the beginning of all life on earth. Yeah. And then.
And again, it’s just like, but then later on they’re finding the black goo and I still don’t have a clue what this black goo is meant to do at all. Weird. It’s like, it’s literally whatever the plot needs us to do at that given moment. cause the engineer drinks it, dyes, dissolves into the water and it creates us. Yeah. Yet in this, it does the complete opposite. Yeah. It’s like in that cavern with all the jars of black goo.
and it creates these weird warums for some reason. But then later on David puts a drop of into the guy’s drink and he horribly mutates. Yeah. It’s like it’s what is this? What is this stuff exactly? Yeah. And this is like huge. Sorry. And he also creates an alien baby as well inside of his. Yeah. That scene as well. It’s like.
So she extracts the baby, but then she’s running around doing action stuff immediately. And again, I know you’ve got to have some kind of suspension of disbelief, but like she’s just had something ripped out of inside her and all she does is heavy breathe for a few seconds and then she’s doing action stuff. And it’s just like there’s massive just lapses in common sense and logic. And the other thing was, and when I found this out, I this does surprise me.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:12:27.042)
This was written by Damon Lindelof who wrote Lost which explains why everything’s a mystery and it’s going to be explained later because we all know how well that worked out on Lost. Do we even need to talk about the final episode of Lost? What a wonderful payoff for everyone that watched that series was. I’ll be honest, never watched it, never watched Lost. It is the ultimate in frustration Lost. It is so frustrating and that’s all I’ll say. If you watch
Go watch the first season of Lost and then you’ll see major echoes of Lost in this. Just everything’s a mystery and that will be explained at some point. At some point we will expect… Cool, listen, it’s cool and mysterious and we don’t really know what it is yet. Yeah, it’s… That’s cool. And you got some of the major lapses in just common sense. These guys are all scientists. They walk through the ship, say…
air is breathable here, we’ll just take our helmets off immediately. It doesn’t matter. No thought of there’s parasites, bacteria or anything like that, foreign bodies. Like we don’t even do that on this planet. Goodness, when you go to another country, you have to have like vaccinations and all that. Yeah, it’s like just alien planet full of alien life. We can breathe, okay, helmet off. And also, there’s things I want you to remember this for the next film.
When they go into the cavern with all the urns of the black fluid, on the wall, quite clearly, there is a mural of a Xenomorph. Remember this. Just hang on to that bit of information right now. It’s going to come in very important in the next film. But yeah, it’s just… And then there’s that bit at the end as well, when the ship is crashing. It’s a long thin ship going down like that. And it’s Charlize Theron, the Elizabeth ship.
They’re running away and I’m saying, just go to the side a little bit. That thing is way behind you. Just run over there. Run! I was close to shouting, will you just run over there now and you’re okay. Yeah, I it’s a spoiler, but… That is something… I have seen Benny Hill chases with better logic than that. It’s the way the ship crashes and keeps going. like, if you just run in a straight line, you’re just like, go right.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:14:46.424)
Go left. Just go right or left. way. Or diagonal. Or run backwards. Just don’t run directly straight ahead. Yeah, just go backwards. When the long thin object is falling behind you, you just go off to the side and you just stand and watch it. I think of all the things that annoy me about this film, that’s probably the thing that gets me the most. Yeah. then…
Yeah, we’re kind of again, we’re being sketchy on this because it’s I think it’s worth a watch one watch of this film is all you need You would want to read and if you do watch it watch it on a nice big screen because it is a gourd like we keep saying it’s a beautiful film to watch like all of Ridley Scott’s flourishes to it, but it’s just the apps this script is nonsense really here and then um, It’s like we’ll just get
So like the crews on the planet, they discover the engineers and then random things happen. It’s like really incoherent. Just watch it for yourself. Like I can’t really describe too much because I forget all the daft things that happen. that’s why I say Idris Elba, he’s introduced as the ship’s captain and then he’s absent for a good hour I think you don’t see him. Yeah. And then they suddenly see the alien ship take off and he just goes, I’m going to crash into it with the Prometheus.
Why not? I says, where have you been? What have you been doing? Why you… Wait, I forgot who you were. I remember he doesn’t actually go onto the ship. Yep. He disappears for about an hour. Yeah, so I never did why he would… Why does he care if the ship goes… The ship gets away? Yeah, why do any of them care? I don’t know. Just let it go and you can go home. know? Yep. And so then we reach the end and…
It’s Shaw and David, they’d launch off on another alien spaceship. Yeah. And here at the end, she gives this amazing monologue about finding the creek. And that’s the other thing. He suddenly decides they want to destroy all human life on Earth. And again, how did you reach this conclusion? What are you basing this on? It’s never again, it’s just. It’s just you.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:17:08.248)
You’ve not really communicated with these engineers properly to find out what they want, what they’re doing or why they did anything at all. Like their only communication went south. Like David tried to talk to him and he rips David’s head off and that’s it. So you’ve got no clue as to what these guys are doing or what they want. Plus if they want to destroy all humanity, why is one human and an Android’s head going to find them? Yep.
What’s the point when they when they reach this deserted spaceship today not say it’s been derelict for it’s been there for thousands of years or something. I think so. And it works perfectly the ship somehow after thousands of years. Somehow. I don’t There’s a built. These engineers build things to last, guess. Yeah, there’s a YouTube channel called Alien Theory. Oh, yeah. Brilliant channel. You can recommend to them. And I think.
What happens is the ships fossilize. Like they can fossilize. Right. That’s the reason it’s so old but it still works. know. But it’s got electricity and power. How does that last when it’s getting fossilized? I’m sorry there’s just so many questions here. It’s All the hologram systems work. the… Everything just works as it is. But it’s like…
thing was Ridley Scott set this up in the first film and this was like a very grounded universe. Yeah. It’s not fantastical, but they’ve gone for fantastical suddenly with the engineers. it was always like the alien and the aliens were very grounded, kind of almost real, just real world tech in a sort of light sci-fi environments. There was never anything that was totally real. But this with the engineers, they’ve made them into just
They can do anything apparently with it. And they’ve got the black goo, which does anything as well. They did. They went to Star Trek, you know. Yeah. So it leaves and hang on to this. They leave and you hear the voiceover from Elizabeth Shaw. She’s going to leave. She’s going to go to the engineers home world and get the answers to why they created life and why they destroyed it. And it’s going to be a mighty fine quest in the next film to watch. Yeah.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:19:33.006)
and they’re all just me on that. they’re all going to get all the answers we want and she’s going to go on a rip-roaring adventure that will be a feast for our eyes and ears to watch. And at the end of it all they’re going to sit down have a cup of tea, you know, you know reminisce about Sort it all out. Yep. And we’re going to get all the answers to all the great mysteries. It’s going to be such a thought-provoking adventure she’s going to go on. I look forward to this one. With that.
How do you rate Prometheus? We’ve ripped on it a lot. Yeah. But as I watched it, I thought, I don’t hate this film. It’s not upset me, it’s frustrated me. Yeah. But ultimately, I thought it was OK. thought that at the time, I think, and this is another thing, it’s like what comes after it so much affects how I look at it now. But at the time, this could be setting up something interesting. It was nice to see Ridley Scott back in this universe doing his
this thing like with great style as well. Yeah. And this is such a difficult one for me to judge. I don’t know what way to go on this, do you? Definitely not game over. It’s not a game over. I wouldn’t quite say it’s in the pipe, just maybe marginally. It’s just outside the pipe. Yeah, just outside the pipe. So with that, let’s move on to the final, currently final film in the franchise until
We see Airene Romulus, which is going to be in the launter very soon. We’re all quite excited for that. So remember what we said at the end, she’s going to go off on a noble quest and she’s going to find the answers to everything. And it’s going to be a thought provoking, probably action packed film. going to follow this character, Elizabeth Shaw. Well, she dies off screen and we don’t see her again in this film. Yeah. And a pioneer, it’s a horrible, horrible death.
You
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:21:28.746)
Yeah it’s an absolute at the hands of David who they become friends at this point. Yeah. Now if you thought the logic in Prometheus was bad, you have that is just like the slice of garlic bread before your main meal you’re in for here. This is like the full roast beef dinner of illogic we’re coming up to here. There’s Alien Covenant was the name and they were gonna
was already going to be Prometheus. It had some kind of lofty title like that at first. the rumor was as they were writing it, you heard that the fans were annoyed that there wasn’t more alien stuff. So it radically changed the end of this film to have alien stuff in it. so we start off alien covered. So we’ve got this ship and it’s going to colonize another planet. OK, that’s fine. That’s kind of alieny kind of stuff that within this universe that doesn’t sound too bad.
They hit a storm, it? And their captain dies. Someone else takes over. Lead lady who I don’t remember it. Listen, another one. I remember Kevin McKidd is in this and Michael Fassbender and no one else. I remember Danny McBride. Sorry, Danny McBride. Sorry, that’s the one. Sorry. Yeah. He’s the pilot. He’s the cowboy type person. That’s pretty much the only reason I remember him because of the hat. That’s his defining characteristic, it?
He wears a cowboy hat. Yeah. So and then when they go to repair the ship, they pick up a rogue transmission and it’s the song Country Roads if I remember right. They also have David on the ship as well. Yeah, a new version of David. Remember that. And on the basis of hearing this, they track the signal and say, this is a planet we didn’t know about. But it’s got a totally Earth like atmosphere.
Well, we’re on this long haul mission to get to this other planet for colonisation reasons. Now, at this point, you’re thinking, well, they can just send a signal back to home. Give the coordinates. You might want to check this planet out. We’ll just carry on with our mission. But no, they just decide, no, we must go here. This is the planet we’re going to colonise now. Yeah, you know, they completely overturn their superior decision just based on this one transmission somehow. No.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:23:51.458)
No, because country roads. If you don’t compromise a plan because country roads, you’re not doing it right. Yeah. I mean, you just need to walk right Stornoway on a Saturday night, hear country roads anywhere. And you know this. That’s how you know Stornoway is like the height of civilization. Everywhere you hear it, like a whole… Like you walk past the Lewis or the Star and you hear loads of drunk folks singing country roads. this is it. This is peak civilization. This is the place I’m going to lay down my roots.
They start a family, you know? Yeah, so they head off to this planet. It starts to get… And then they say, there’s a bad storm down there. And I’m like, well, you guys aren’t in a hurry. You can just wait for the storm to clear. But no, they must land on the planet immediately for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, they can just wait up in space. know, where the ship’s supposed to be. they can scan this planet, but they don’t scan the massive settlements.
they eventually come across. They somehow don’t know that’s there. Somehow. But they land and remember how we said in the first full bow, it’s like they just they took their helmets off. Well, they just don’t bother. They just walk onto the planet anyway. And then when that guy steps on the spores, you’re like, duh. It’s like, know, he’s every day. Then. And I’m like, struggling to remember what exactly.
Are they assaulted by an alien at that point or something and they run to and that’s the other David rescues them? Yeah, they I think one of them dies. I’m not too sure. But yeah, they’re attacked. They’re shooting it and then they managed to, I don’t know, either fend it off or David, think David scares it off. Evil David scares it off and then he’s basically like come over here, you know.
He’s dressed in a sinister cloak and he walks them through the ruins of this city where there’s thousands of dead bodies everywhere and they don’t think, well, this guy seems trustworthy. We’ll go with him. Yeah. Yeah, there’s nothing suspicious happening here at all. And then this is like the one wee stretch of the film, which I actually find quite, it was entertaining. It’s when the two Davids meet and it’s just…
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:26:14.67)
It is so weird, it’s entertaining that word. It’s it’s a testament to Michael Fassbender that he said some of those lines with a straight face. Yeah, because you have the new version David who is basically a child. Yep. And then you have the adult version of David who is And it has to say I’ll help you with the fingering. And it’s like, how did he keep a straight face to those lines? I couldn’t have.
Thank
Unless it was an actor. And so we eventually find out that he killed Shaw at some point and then he’s gutted her a lot. He’s used her guts for research with the black goo. Again, what the black goo is doing we know because we find he approves a cloud of black goo that just wipes out the population. Why he did this?
We still don’t know. think, well, wouldn’t he want to speak to these engineers and find out? Nothing makes sense. Nothing at all makes sense. then remember, I said there’s an important point to remember is that it’s later revealed that David creates the xenomorph, but there was a mural of a xenomorph in the last film of the wall. Yeah, I’ve never understood that. And he says the alien is the perfect organism, is it?
How? Is that just your reference Ash from the first film or something? I just want to understand. Yeah, I’ve never understood how… Like, really Scott seems like he is very, you know, detail oriented. Visual and details are his thing. So how could he have let that one slide? I think he just… From the documentaries I’ve seen of his films…
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:28:07.138)
He tends to actors who think you don’t need much direction from him. You can just do their own thing. Like I know Harrison Ford didn’t like him in Blade Runner because of that. But he said he hired Harrison Ford because he thought well, Harrison Ford knows what to do. I don’t need and I can focus on getting all these visuals looking really great for him. And I think that’s it. And I think just this cast. They really needed some good direction and a script to work with. And I don’t think Ridley Scott really bothers too much with the script.
You go to Gladiator. Gladiator is a wonderful looking film and it’s decent film. It’s an okay script and it’s just elevated by what Ridley Scott does. Ridley Scott can’t lift up a poor script. He can dress it nice but it’s still, you’re like, oh what’s going on here? Yes, he got all that and that wheelie in the newborn or something it’s called, isn’t it? That white one that’s running about or something, isn’t it? The neomorph. Neomorph, that’s the one.
But.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:29:06.158)
couldn’t remember. And then they do a scene that’s lifted of all the films they could have lifted a chase scene out of. Why did they choose Jurassic Park The Lost World? Yeah. I mean, that’s another one. That’s a film we should talk. That’s got a huge leap of this. And so sudden. And then there’s all this. And then they get back onto the ship and there’s one really cool, the back barster. That’s a really cool scene and idea.
But for some reason, one of them runs out the room and locks the other two in when one of them’s still okay. I said, why didn’t you let your friend out? That’s a bit horrible what you’ve there. But then this is what I say, the last 30, 45 minutes, they tried to tack on a standard alien film onto this. Yeah. We finally have a full on xenomorph. Again, grew to full size remarkably quickly. Well, yeah.
It was born and then it just seemed to grow there and then, you know, and it’s like, I think you can get away with that because it’s, that’s like an experiment. Yeah. know, so the, the, the life cycle is obviously going to be different. So you can get away with that. There’s so many other problems we have, like if David’s been alone on that planet and we see he’s got xenomorph eggs, would have needed to have created
Queen alien which we never see. Well I think that’s what he was trying to do with Shaw. Right. She was hoping she’d have the material for a Queen. But again it’s not really very clear. Yeah that’s a problem. The one thing I’ve always hated about films like this, the creators they never really answer the questions that we actually need them to answer. Yep.
And it’s like I say, this is the problem. These guys, always just think if it’s a big mystery, people will just love it then. They love mysteries. They’ll be answered later at some point. Yeah, we do. But the problem is half time, they never get answered. Yeah. And so we’re just left. And so you would think the last half hour, an alien running around a spaceship, you’d think, well, I’ve really got on home ground here. He’ll pull us. And it’s just not suspenseful or exciting.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:31:29.814)
or any of the things you would have thought. The alien’s in full light all the time and there’s no, and there’s just no, there’s nothing to get you excited or invested because you don’t care about anyone. I mean, the scene in the shower just comes off as funny more than anything because how did those two not notice this eight foot creature that has stepped into the shower with them? They were too preoccupied. Even then it’s like.
Even any of us in the moment would tend to notice a giant eight foot creature suddenly appeared. But that would kind of distract you in the moment, surely. And so what where does this so how does this end again? So yeah, back on the ship and they think it’s the good David. And I saw this a mile off. That’s the evil David. I know straight. That’s the evil David.
Because they’ve done the whole thing. We didn’t see, they kind of went off screen and one of them’s dead. Yeah, that’s Evil David. can tell. And he’s got alien embryos that he’s going to put on this colony or something. And it’s like, so are they going to LV426 yet? Are we ever going to get to that? Because that’s what we’ve been promised this whole time. And it’s like never getting any closer to it. It’s like with all things, it’s just, it’s implied, but we’ll probably never know.
We’ll probably never see it. Yeah. I don’t think they’re ever going to follow this one up. I think they kind of know that quite well. And then also thing I’m trying to remember, there’s something from the start that feeds into all of this. And I can’t remember what it was I was going to bring up there. There’s another thing that just infuriated me. Like the whole film infuriates me. It’s like, you know, the thing I’ll forgive Prometheus was they were going to set up things and this film doesn’t go anywhere with any ideas from the first.
from a previous one. There’s no progression of anything from that first film whatsoever. only thing is they found what they thought was the engine of the new planet. again, those engineers, if that ship is thousands of years old with the engineers, that ship is ancient. Like, what’s that doing here suddenly? Yeah, it’s. There’s so many, just, yeah, that’s what it
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:33:48.778)
was it was at the start does one of them not say there we never we don’t know what happened to the Prometheus mission I say well didn’t anyone go to that planet afterwards to look or try and find out and they would have found plenty of evidence of things went awry there yeah plus you would have thought that you know logs you know or a communication would have been sent out yeah
All they have to do is just send up a follow-up mission to have a look what’s going on on that planet. And what happened to that, the proto-Xenomorph from the first film, what happened to him? Yeah. Because that was heavily implied there was something going to be a follow-up, but that’s… This is the reasons why this film frustrates all the kind of things that seem to be going somewhere in Prometheus. We’re for nothing. And that’s why you get annoyed with this one so much. Yeah.
They promise so much and you just get nothing, zero, not any kind of, you know, satisfactory follow up or conclusion or development in this. And that’s like, that’s why I think we’re so harsh on it. Yeah. Cause it’s like I said, it’s, would just explain stuff, you know, you don’t have to do clog exposition. Like I said, can do, you can explain things in a good natural way. with some good writing and all that is like.
But nothing, nothing at all. It just gives you, you just look frustrated at the end of this one. And so with that, I think this one is definitely game over. I mean, did the of the, the, the xenomorph in it. can’t remember what they actually called it, but I like the design of it. Like the fully grown one.
the problem is the xenomorph works best when it’s hiding in the shadows and all but they just have in full daylight and it loses so much of its mystery and allure then yeah it was more like a wild animal and this one yeah it’s like Ridley Scott hid it in the shadows in the first one then James Cameron still had it he had loads of them but they were all in the shadows and all that and even David Fincher did
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:36:14.094)
It was kind of quite subtle and all that, but it’s like once you have them in full view, they just lose some of that impact straight away. Yeah, but this film is game over. Until now, I will just probably finish this Alien Romulus. Oops. Do you think? Is it Alvarez? Freddy Alvarez is the director? Director of that really good Evil Dead reboot.
Do you think he’s pulling this one off? I’ve heard good things. I’ve heard one thing that I don’t know if I’m going to like it. Yep. I don’t know. we’re talking about. We’re not going to say cause if you’re listening to this and you’re getting ready to go to the lamp or we don’t want to be in any way spoiling things. Yeah. I have heard very mixed reviews. I’ve heard good. I’ve heard again, it’s I’m hoping, I’m hoping that it’s
it’s saying on the good side. Because like I’m not expecting it. Yeah. But. Because I think the ship has sailed in terms of getting anything to match what Ridley Scott, Cameron or Fincher did. I don’t I can’t see any I don’t want to be down on modern directors, but I can’t see any director really having that strong a vision to pull off something. Alvarez, he knows how to do horror. He knows how to do gore and all that.
It’s whether he knows how to do characters and suspense properly. That’s what I’m and yeah, I’ve heard things about this. There’s some loving it. There’s some who say the first half hour or so they say is brilliant, builds up everything. And then they said it kind of I’ve heard folks say it falls off a cliff quite dramatically and other folks say no, it’s great. And it’s a love letter to the series. So I am completely neutral when I go into this one, think. mean, I think
With, like again, like we were saying with Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, like it’s from what we’ve heard, it’s good. Yeah. I think to temper that with what Folk have said about it is good, it is not amazing. They just said it’s good. And that was the most surprising thing for them. Because think lot of folk were nervous about Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, me included. But when I’ve heard most folks say it’s good and John Carpenter seems to be back on solid ground now. I just, I just want it to be good.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:38:43.074)
Like with all remakes, it doesn’t have to be amazing, doesn’t have to be up to the standard of the original. long as it’s enjoyable, I’m happy. Yeah, it’s just, we don’t want any more Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls or Phantom Menaces. Just write a solid, something just solid. Just don’t be trying to, don’t pack it full of references. Just write a solid story in that universe. There’s probably plenty of comics, really good comics for alien and aliens, by the way, and novels.
There’s audiobooks as well on Audible. You should definitely check out some of the Audible originals because there’s one, there’s a drama version of the original William Gibson script for Alien 3. That’s worth a listen. There’s a prequel to Aliens. There’s some really good material out there. This is one franchise that’s got a fantastic expanded universe, I would say. I’ve heard people say that that’s what they should do with Aliens.
instead of doing one continuous story, know, just do one of stories, you know. Yeah, I they are. I think I can’t remember, but the Alien series that they’re doing, I think that’s for the TV series. Yeah, I think that’s doing the Earth War story. Right. OK, that’d be interesting. But it’s like, it’s like a rich source of material. can either out there for this. They’re like.
So if you just mind the comics a bit more, mind some of the novels, you’ll find some really good stuff there. So for Romulus and The Same Boat, I just want this to be good. I’m not expecting like a Fury Road kind of thing. I know you’re not so keen on Fury Road, but Fury Road was so good compared to like for a legacy sequel, that was pretty incredible, I’ve got to say.
Even you’re not the biggest Fury Road fan, but you do admit there was some quality there. It wasn’t just a tired legacy sequel. It was made with proper passion and care for the franchise. Whereas, you know, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, that’s going to be held up as like, that’s like kind of the worst of, that’s like where you don’t want to go with a legacy sequel. But for Romulus, I’m just saying, I just want this to be good and hopefully it gets the franchise.
Cal MacD & Kenny (01:41:06.798)
going again in some capacity. I mean that’s I think that’s all it has to do after the last few films it just has to be okay. It’s the same as like when Star Wars Episode 7 came out at the time it just needed to be okay after the prequels. I mean we all know where that went afterwards we’ll get into that but I think with Romulus it’s just let’s just hope it’s just a solid decent film and then we can see where they take us afterwards. That’s the main thing can they go back to the the proper alien films like
You know, more traditional alien films without Ripley. That’s the big test for Romulus, I think. I don’t think so, to be honest. will St. Garnier ever come back? I don’t want to be honest. No, I don’t want to. No, because I just like her. I just think how else can they bring her back without it getting ridiculous? But to be honest, there’s one we haven’t talked about. The Blomkamp. The Blomkamp. Yeah, that was going to be…
Alien 3. They were going to do what Superman Returns tried to do and what what’s another film they tried to erase. What some of the Terminator films tried to do that the Exterminator Dark Fate tried to do that. Yeah. Erase all the other films say no this is T3 now. Well, Ronkhan said he wasn’t wanting he wasn’t trying to erase Alien 3 and Resurrection. He was just this was his
story. Yeah. The only way that worked from the art I saw and it was like an older Ripley and Hicks. Yeah. They would have to make Colonial Marines canon. Just like that is that really is going to pop up your film. That’s like that makes me nervous. Colonial Marines is going to make your film canon. Oh, jeez. You’re going to have to canonize that game of all things. But with that, I think we can wrap it up there. So.
I think our thoughts are pretty clear on this. That the first two, especially the second one, the first one is like, it’s like a masterpiece art house film I think. It’s like a sci-fi film done with autistic sensibility. That’s okay, you’ve gone Kenny again. You held out for an hour.
Kenny Mac (01:43:19.938)
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Kenny Mac (01:43:49.006)
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Kenny Mac (01:44:00.109)
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