Stranger Things Revisited: Seasons 1–4 and Beyond

Introduction

In this episode of OH!CAST, we deliver a comprehensive Stranger Things analysis, exploring the cultural phenomenon that reshaped geek culture and mainstream television. From its debut in 2016 to its most recent season, Stranger Things has captivated audiences with its blend of 1980s nostalgia, supernatural horror, and heartfelt character arcs. Our discussion revisits seasons one through four, highlighting the strengths, weaknesses, and unforgettable moments that made the series a global hit.

Season One: The Perfect Beginning

Our Stranger Things analysis begins with season one, widely regarded as the strongest. The show introduces Hawkins, Indiana, a small town hiding dark secrets. The disappearance of Will Byers sets the stage for a mystery that blends government conspiracies, supernatural monsters, and the innocence of childhood friendship. The Demogorgon becomes the first iconic villain, while Eleven’s introduction as a telekinetic child escaping a secret lab anchors the emotional core. The chemistry among the kids mirrors classics like The Goonies, making season one a near‑perfect mix of suspense, nostalgia, and character development.

Season Two: Expanding the Mythology

Season two deepens the mythology, and our Stranger Things analysis highlights the introduction of the Mind Flayer. While the Demodogs add new threats, the real tension lies in the hive‑mind control that expands the Upside Down’s influence. Dustin’s bond with D’Artagnan provides humor and heart, while Will’s possession by the Mind Flayer raises the stakes. Though some critics argue season two lacks the tight focus of the first, it succeeds in broadening the world and giving characters like Steve Harrington room to grow into fan favorites.

Season Three: Horror Meets Pop Culture

Season three shifts tone, blending body‑horror influences with bright 1980s mall culture. Our Stranger Things analysis notes how the Starcourt Mall becomes both a nostalgic centerpiece and a battleground. The grotesque transformations caused by the Mind Flayer echo classic horror films, while the neon setting contrasts with the darkness of the threat. Character arcs shine here: Steve embraces his role as the kids’ protector, while Eleven and Max’s friendship adds depth. The season balances humor, horror, and heart, though some plotlines divide fans.

Season Four: The Rise of Vecna

Season four introduces Vecna, a villain rooted in Dungeons & Dragons lore. This Stranger Things analysis emphasizes how Vecna elevates the series’ horror elements, drawing comparisons to gothic villains and supernatural liches. His connection to Hawkins’ past ties the narrative threads together, while his psychological attacks on characters like Max deliver some of the show’s most chilling moments. The season also expands globally, with Hopper’s storyline in Russia and Eleven’s journey to regain her powers. Though ambitious, season four succeeds in raising the stakes and setting the stage for the final chapter.

Character Development Across Seasons

A key part of any Stranger Things analysis is the evolution of its characters. Eleven grows from a frightened child into a powerful young woman, carrying the emotional weight of the series. Steve transforms from a selfish teen into the beloved “babysitter” of Hawkins. Joyce Byers, played by Winona Ryder, embodies resilience and determination, while Chief Hopper’s arc from jaded cop to surrogate father resonates deeply. The kids—Mike, Dustin, Lucas, and Will—each contribute unique perspectives, making the ensemble cast one of the strongest in modern television.

Cultural Impact

Beyond the narrative, our Stranger Things analysis explores its cultural impact. The series revived interest in Dungeons & Dragons, brought synthwave music into mainstream playlists, and reignited love for 1980s aesthetics. It also demonstrated how streaming platforms could produce global hits, influencing countless other shows. Stranger Things became more than entertainment; it became a touchstone for nostalgia and a gateway for younger audiences to discover retro culture.

Conclusion

This Stranger Things analysis shows why the series remains one of Netflix’s most important productions. By blending horror, fantasy, and heartfelt storytelling, it captured the imagination of millions. As we await season five, the journey through seasons one to four reminds us of the power of character‑driven narratives and the enduring appeal of geek culture.

 

Full Transcript Outline (Quick Jumps)

1. Introduction to OH!CAST- Timestamp: 0:00
   • Cal MacD welcomes everyone to OH!CAST, setting the stage for a discussion on “Stranger Things.”
2. Character Analysis: Brenner and Bob- Timestamp: 1:30
   • Discussion on the contrasting fates of Brenner and Bob, highlighting their roles and impact on the series.
3. Stranger Things Seasons Overview- Timestamp: 5:00
   • A deep dive into the evolution of “Stranger Things” from seasons one to four, including character development and plot twists.
4. Dungeons & Dragons Influence- Timestamp: 15:00
   • Exploration of how Dungeons & Dragons is woven into the narrative of “Stranger Things” and its cultural impact.
5. Character Dynamics and Growth- Timestamp: 25:00
   • Analysis of character relationships and growth, focusing on key figures like Eleven, Mike, and the rest of the gang.
6. Thematic Elements and Cultural References- Timestamp: 35:00
   • Discussion on the 80s cultural references and thematic elements that make “Stranger Things” resonate with audiences.
7. Predictions for Season Five- Timestamp: 45:00
   • Speculations and predictions for the upcoming season, including potential character arcs and plot developments.
8. Soundtrack and Cultural Impact- Timestamp: 60:00
   • Examination of the show’s soundtrack and its role in enhancing the series’ nostalgic appeal.
9. New Characters and Their Roles- Timestamp: 75:00
   • Introduction and analysis of new characters like Eddie and their contributions to the storyline.
10. Vecna and the Villains of Season Four- Timestamp: 90:00
    • Discussion on the introduction of Vecna and the evolution of antagonists in the series.
11. Fan Theories and Speculations- Timestamp: 105:00
    • Exploration of popular fan theories and their potential implications for the series.
12. Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up- Timestamp: 120:00
    • Concluding remarks on the series’ impact and what fans can look forward to in the future.

Full Transcript Outline

Speaker 1 (00:00.974)
Good evening everyone. Welcome back to OCAST, your island gateway to all things geek and just remember to like, share, follow, subscribe, leave a review, all that good stuff and help get us up on the algorithm and help boost the popularity. And join me tonight. It’s a very much reduced team, but no less the fun though. Welcome back here and what’s happening, my man? Not much as usual, working, drawing and chilling and nerding out.

It’s a good combination and kind of just in the right frame of mind for what we’re about to do tonight. We’re going to look back on probably one of the biggest cult hits, one of the biggest pop hits or pop culture hits for the past few years I would probably say. Stranger Things. We’re going to look through seasons one to four and then give our opinions and thoughts on where season five might take us. So I’m going to go back to the beginning. There’s a big age gap between us. I know that.

So how old were you when you first saw Stranger Things? Just out of curiosity. So when did it first come out? 2016. Jesus. OK, so near on 10 years ago. So nine years ago, I would have been 22. OK, right. Not quite a big a gap as I thought for some reason. I thought you were much younger than that. So take that praise to kick off. It’s the beard. Yes, the beard keeps your youthful looks going.

Well, I know it’s just because I remember when this came out and it’s kind of straight. It’s like bizarre to think of this. It was not thought of as this big. It was just thought of Winona Ryder’s doing a Netflix show. It was seen as Winona Ryder, the big actress. And then it’s sort of as far as I can tell, it really kicked off the way geek culture has gone as we know it. It like made such a massive impact. This show, it brought.

like things like Dungeons and Dragons is brought right into the mainstream where it’s like, have never been this popular and kind of accepted in the mainstream before, as I can recall. Like role playing in general now is widely accepted. Yeah, yeah, definitely. mean, aside from like a few mentions in previous series, like Futurama gives it a nod with an appearance or a show of Gary Gygax who just rolls a d20. It’s nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 (02:24.256)
Yeah. It’s hard. mean, it’s that difficult to kind of recall how many D &D references that are on shows. not, weren’t that many. then I think over the past, I would say definitely see over least the past decade or so D &D has gradually grown further and further become more popular because either people were finding more and more about it, get more interest, forming groups. And of course you have the internet itself where a lot of D &D sessions can be held online.

I was, I got first into D &D through an online session with my mate Matthew. So, and then I think Stranger Things just seemed to amp it up because it was a nice blend of nerdism featuring D &D and actually showing you a little bit bits and pieces of it while also incorporating horror and sci-fi and fantasy. Because it was quite interesting as Heather pointed out in the chat, D &D is not featured as much as you might think and I rewatched the list.

And she’s right, but it’s more that when it’s shown in the show, it’s a pivotal point. It’s like they use it. It’s kind of an interesting way they used to relate plot points and how to explain the point. It’s a storytelling method. It helps to relate the story. And it’s a kind of quite unique one. I don’t think it’s ever been used in this way before in any kind of medium at all. Yeah, because it mirrors, it also kind of shows you…

how the kids, at least from the first season or just in general think, because you know, what they’re up against, they’ve no idea what to call it. Well, they essentially have no name officially. And we only refer to them as the names as described by the kids. And then the only way they can associate it was, what they went against in D and D. So for example, the Demogorgon, they were going through from what I could tell just from pure context, they would have been in season one.

going through the module, the D &D module that probably features the Demogorgon. Unless of course, the, I can’t remember who the DM, I think it was either Will or… Will in the first season. Yeah. Either he used the Demogorgon as the big bad guy. But either way, when that story unravels, Will goes missing, they get introduced to this faceless man. And then they just think immediately, they associate, okay, this is a big bad guy. We’re currently facing the Demogorgon.

Speaker 1 (04:47.31)
That’s what we’re calling it. And then season two, have something behind the scenes that you’re, that we are introduced to. I don’t see it til to the end. mean, the main, the main bad guys are I think the government and the, the demodogs, because we get introduced to D’Artagnan, the demodog that, that, Dustin takes us up there. Yeah. Yeah. Which is hilarious. So it’s hard. think it’s fair to say there’s no.

proper antagonists. There’s a behind the scenes antagonist that get introduced to that features in the third season, the mind flayer. Um, and again, this is due to association mind flayers in D and D control, uh, other creatures, turn them into other mind flayers. They are connected through a hive mind in this case, the elder brain. again, just through association and similarities.

Mind Flayer is the big main thing. It’s controlling all these other things. Which includes the Demogorgons and Demogorgons. And then of course it’s expanded even further with the little horror show that season three gives us. Yes, it does. And then of course on to season four. Am I right? Vecna is like a homebrew character that Eddie and me. Is he not right now? No, Vecna is an actual D &D. He is a…

I get this correctly because I might not be watching this but when it becomes on screen I’ll show him so he’ll probably scream in my face if I get this wrong. He’s a walking encyclopedia of D &D so I will refer to him. But Vecna is essentially a lich who is able to attain godhood in D &D. is a god. So I don’t know the bits and pieces but liches are essentially undead spellcasters

who gain their power by basically making huge sacrifices to themselves. So in essence, they have a form of immortality, but they need something to keep it going. And most cases, liches require a phylactery. So should their physical body die, their sole essence goes into the phylactery and they reform over time. There’s also multiple different ways of doing this. But Vecna is a very powerful lich, very ancient.

Speaker 1 (07:08.896)
having like one hand so there’s an item called the hand of Vecna there’s also none for having one eye and things get taken from him but yeah he’s one of the very few that actually attain godhood okay all right so that’s a little basic outline and with that i think we can see again to actually talking about the seasons one by one season one is pretty much perfect i think it is the best season by far because it’s just very simple very straightforward

Yeah, one villain a little bit of mystery thrown in The 80s nostalgia is just kind of seasoned in just to perfection. It doesn’t override anything but What makes stranger things work above is these characters and they are all the activity the casting and the characters and their interactions are just So perfect so good like that group of kids behaves like a proper group of kids all they speak like kids

Yeah, you feel like they are lifelong friends Yeah, it’s not like you have in most This is a trope really associated with a lot of anime not all but a lot. So let’s say example It’s not like you’re having adults perform as kids where yeah in anime majority of the time kids are not written as kids Yeah, they’re like eight year olds who can think like and speak like adults. It’s like no the main anime in exceptions

going off topic but relatable is Anya from Spy Family because that’s based off of the Magica’s daughter. That’s why it’s a little child. But even in live action films or series, there are some adults who portray teenagers. So again, same effect. like, you’re older than a teenager, you’re acting sort of like a teenager. I suppose it varies from to film and the scripts.

And of course, the trick with kids is obviously they’re just growing up. If they’re used to acting, you know, they’ll have an advantage. But kids who are just thrown into it for the first time might struggle with their lines and some sums how they sounds in the film. You know, it’s like they need bit more training, but the obviously the kids in Stranger Things, actors and characters, all of them have chemistry with one another.

Speaker 1 (09:31.724)
They are all growing up with one another, so they’re all family and they all just seem to mesh well really, really brilliantly. It’s basically a very, the only other group of kids I can recall in any media that worked this well was the Goonies. And that’s probably, they point out the Goonies as a host film on the whole. It’s not that great, but it’s just those kids make it so bloody entertaining. it’s the same here. But it goes for all the characters like,

I think there’s three distinct groups you’ve got the kids, the teens and the adults. Like the teens, quite good. I was surprised when I re-watched over the weekend Steve. I thought he was a bigger asshole than what he is in season one. Everyone seems to think this. Everyone seems to think, Steve was so… And then you watch us, he’s not really a lot of what he does. You can’t understand why he behaved. Like the whole smashing of Jonathan’s camera. I said well

Jonathan was being a bit weird and creepy there, to be honest. Yeah. I think that’s like interesting because that also helps with the character growth. Same with Jonathan as well. could arguably use him. And another good example of character growth regarding male is Sokka from Blast Airbender. He starts off kind of, not to the same extent as Steve, but he starts off kind of similarly. very shown off, shown off as very kind of like sexist, you know.

He grew up in a society where men and women have their places. You have a sister who’s a very powerful waterbender who could take him out quite easily as the episodes progress and as the series progresses and Sokka gets, you know, basically it causes him for him to get his ass handed to him by the Kyoshi warriors for him to realize this. But he gradually grows into someone who becomes respectable, earns a lot of respect, shows it, gives it a very, very talented warrior.

you know, just for the sake of that series. And the same thing kind of happens with Steve. You know, like you said, you know, he has his reasons for slashing up Jonathan’s camera. He does come across as a bit of a dick. Probably, I wouldn’t say sexist, because I think that’s a different character type. Because I can’t quite remember him being very… I can’t remember him behaving. Just a few moments, but he’s more behaving like a teen. Yeah, exactly. He goes through a character arc.

Speaker 1 (11:55.634)
You know, and this is very common for any story or series. For something to be really good, characters need to have their own arc. see these characters develop as they go. You introduce the Steve, Dick, absolute Dick. Not much love for him, but in time he grows, especially toward the end of season one, where he becomes a protector of the kids. He just knuckles down, gets a bat ready, helps everyone else set up traps for the Demogorgon. And he becomes an absolute

beast. He’s brilliant. And then, know, onwards from season one to season four, he just becomes a really good character. And that’s good character development. And it was interesting because I read that they had planned to kill him off fairly, very, he was going to be one of the victims very early on in season one. Yeah. But the actor’s performance was that good. They said, we can do something with us. He can be redeemable, this guy. Yeah, of course. That’s what I’ve heard.

Again, don’t know that’s 100 % true. That sometimes does happen, but I think it’s when they saw the performance the guy gave, they just said, oh, this could really work this character. Yeah. mean, and they were able to like fit him in like that. It’s just pretty good. And you have the other contributor to his arc as well is his relationship with Nancy. Nancy, yep. It’s been that long. Yeah.

but yeah, it’s like, obviously they’re, they’re together, the boyfriend, girlfriend. He’s still been dickish, but it becomes quite possessive and jealous at the start. Also overprotective. but then obviously as they grow apart, and Jonathan and Nancy get, you know, get close together, he still gets jealous. But obviously when time, when the right time comes for him to show us true colors, he does, and it becomes the kid’s guardian defender.

unofficial babysitter. Yeah. Yeah, that’s said quite often. and I think just we go through all the kids. I don’t think there’s not a weak link amongst the kids. think we do have to point out 11 like Lily Bobby Brown has done. She carries this whole series all the way to be the focal point at such a young age and then carry on doing that as she’s grown up. It’s just phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (14:14.262)
at that age as well, cause I imagine they were similar in age when they first started. and being at the age, think this was just before her Enola Holmes films. So I think it was like, well, I don’t know if it was her debut, but it was definitely one of her first sort of performances and being at that age. You know, she’s British born, born I think English, but being able to pull off a pretty good American accent. Yeah. Cause obviously that’s the surroundings they’re in.

And yeah, it just shows how skilled she is, know, at starting at such a young age. And just, you know, all the, can just sense just from that first series alone, emotion she puts into it, because you can feel it coming off of every performance she gives as Eleven. So whenever Eleven’s feeling pissed, you feel it. Yeah. Just looked up, grew up in Bournemouth. She was born in Spain, but grew up in Bournemouth.

When you hear her speaking in a character like her accent is almost, you’ll probably appreciate this as someone with a mishmash accent yourself. She’s got that definitely going like quite a lot. then, yeah, we could go through the car and then obviously my favorite of the kids, I think everyone’s is Dustin, the genius. No one listens to him and he’s right every bloody time. Like people keep dismissing him constantly. He’s also like, he’s a nice blend of heroism.

and comedy. I think the kid himself is like, he’s almost like a new version of the kid who played Chunk from Goonies. They have a very similar sense of humor. The actor who played Dustin, what was kind of cool, I guess, was that the actor for Dustin doesn’t have collarbones.

might as well implement that into the character which becomes one of the running gags in the first season. I don’t think it really shows up in the other three but it’s like whatever he does, he shows him rolling his arms and there’s nothing there. He has a lot of flexibility so canonically his character as doesn’t have the collarbone. Yep and so we’ll go on to Will. I think it’s Will and Mike. Well Will doesn’t really feature in season one so it’s just

Speaker 1 (16:35.308)
He’s essentially the damsel in distress. Yeah. What I do like, even though he’s take largely taken out, he is the focal point of the story. main reason why the story exists and what kids are doing. Yeah. But even though he’s kind of taken out of it, put off to the sidelines, you still see his story, his personal life is like thoughts, you know, everything he remembers with his brother, Jonathan, everything he remembers with his mother. And he’s just see how scared he is when he’s in the upside down.

everything the actor for will portray is just stunning. It’s pretty good. You can you feel it. The way they tackle it, the way they handle that little his little personal growth and his story is, you know, exceptionally. They handle it really well. They’re very clever about it as well. Yeah. And then that just also that just leaves Mike, who’s kind of the de facto leader for the season, basically.

Because he’s meant to be Will’s primary best friend. I assume, I think if I recall correctly, the two of them either met first or that’s the context here that they’ve known each other the longest. In fact, I think it’s Lucas and another one. They’re the kind of original best friends. I know Lucas and are quite close if I recall. Yeah, Lucas is one of the, he’s definitely one of the first in that group. I can’t remember the order. They do at some point say, but I remember Lucas being one of the original.

yeah, because I think maybe was Will was one more recent ones. Yeah. I’m guessing. Yeah. Because that’s the other thing. Yeah. And Lucas as well, just, he’s just spot on as well. He’s sort of the kind of, I don’t know, he he’s more like the, the skeptic of the group or like the let’s not do this. Let’s just go to the police all the time. He’s the logical thinker of the group. Yeah. I’m not just a skeptic, but the logical thinker is like, okay, we need to think about this realistically.

Um, he’s also ethically speaking because it’s the eighties. Six years was much worse. I mean, don’t know arguably, but you still have, despite that, you know, 20 years on and even today, you still have shitheads who think people of other colors are beneath them. Yes. So Lucas, you know, being a character of color kind of represents hit, you know, people, you know, uh, people of color.

Speaker 1 (18:59.598)
going through that even in the eighties. I can’t remember how many scenes there are, there’s definitely scenes of him being kind of judged on just based on his race and being picked on. there’s even scenes where his friends themselves are just doing, I don’t know what the word is, but it’s not like they’re doing it consciously, just subconsciously. And the main one is when they cosplay as Ghostbusters, saying, why the heck do I have to be Winston all the time?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You were going to say it, you were going to say it, it’s because I’m black. I don’t want to be Winston. It’s like, obviously Lucas as a character, you know, kind of has fun with it, obviously. Well, you know, being the only, you know, character of color during that time periods, it hits him differently because obviously, you know, us white pasty folk are used to a certain demographic. We’re just like, you know, we’re used to

just seeing things from our own perspective and not being bothered by things at that time, or at least not thinking about it. But whereas with like Lucas and his family, they have to deal with problems almost on a day to day basis. Lucas is growing up with them and still has to, you know, either defend himself or deal with it in such a way where it doesn’t, you know, bring further harm to himself. And obviously these are his friends. So he’s probably aware of what

they imply what they’re saying. They’re not obviously thinking about it, but they’re not meaning it form either. So yes, like play it off. Yeah. So he has to do some course correction on them round again, basically. Exactly. So yeah, that’s, that’s all the kids. I think we’ll just go through. We’ve done the teens. Apart from Jonathan, we didn’t cover him. He was, I I liked him. He’s not my favourite all the way through. He’s mixed bag. Yeah. He’s like…

He provides me one thing I do love about him is he wants to be the best supportive brother he can for will because obviously you have the story of their dads just being absent. And whenever he tries to step, you know, come into the lives, his mother’s pushing him away for very good reasons. you know, their dad’s a bit of a knob. Um, so obviously Jonathan being the older brother wants to protect his little brother.

Speaker 1 (21:18.828)
wants to help him grow up. You see these again with Will’s memories as well and Jonathan’s memories of Will. Jonathan introduces him to his taste in music. So you hear Will constantly singing to himself when he’s upside down, do I stay or do I go? Because it’s a nice little, it keeps him, I think it makes him feel safe. It’s like a safety song. So Jonathan acts as his protector because he probably feels there’s no one sufficient to protect him. But he has his own sort of…

anti-social creepy, yes, I think it’s unintentional. Yeah, largely, but yeah, there’s a lot of his actions are kind of like, yeah, he’s kind of done it himself and also the people around him have forced him to be the outsider. it’s become maybe become a bit bitter and resentful about the whole thing. Yeah. And I think that reflects and maybe that’s what leads to his major creepy moment where he’s infringing on people’s boundaries. again, there’s

no one to guide him apart from his mother. His mother’s obviously busy with work and fret and worrying about will. So again, that’s the role of the older sibling is sometimes, you know, when there’s no middle child, obviously, but sometimes the older sibling gets kind of forgotten about. he’s had, Jonathan’s had no proper way to grow, no one to probably guide him and say what’s right and wrong. Yeah.

And he’s also kind of been forced into the role of basically being Will’s dad almost. He’s essentially in that role. Which, just as we’re going through the carry, we’ll go on to the adults now and the two main adults. Winona Ryder just absolutely perfect in the role of playing it. Not a role I would ever have associated with what Winona Ryder doing. Because as I grew up in the 90s, she was seen as the alternative actress who plays these weird quirky characters.

for her to play a of brow-beaten single mum who’s barely holding it together. Never a role I would picture her in. And it’s also, while I said at the start this was seen as Winona Ryder’s Netflix show at the start, her career wasn’t on a great run at the time because she’d had her personal problems and that. And this basically relaunched her. No, which is very good because I’ve not seen much of Winona Ryder’s stuff. I do know her. I did know her name.

Speaker 1 (23:41.112)
prior to Sager Things. And I’ve only just like recently, last year, I’m a bit late to the game, watched Beetlejuice. And that was, you know, she that was back when she was a teen. That was pretty good film. But yeah, it’s just, Winona Ryder as well as Mother is pretty fantastic. Because again, she’s she’s good actress. She portrays a really good mother who’s just whose mind is just

going everywhere. It wasn’t about worrying about one thing, worrying about this thing, worrying about Will. yeah, Jonathan’s there as well, but Will. Yeah, and just trying to keep it all together. And then once Will goes missing, her desperation to find an answer and like no one believing her and she just pulls it off. And I think I kind of feel this, you know, when you’re watching it, I don’t know if this affects everyone. It’s like, obviously you’re seeing things from Will and his mother’s perspective. And obviously, you know what’s happening.

The mother’s losing her mind. And obviously when she’s trying to get help and warn everyone else, there’s a part, there’s probably a logic part of you that would probably agree if you were an outsider, or if you’re one of those people in that situation and just some lady or someone you know comes up, you know, like Will’s mother did and starts asking for help. like, my boy’s disappeared. You’d probably think the same thing as everyone else. he’s just missing, you know, he’ll be back soon enough. And then obviously as things carry on, because there’s nothing to support her theories.

you probably would come up with your own. And I think there’s quite a few characters that kind of do that as well. Yeah. But you also kind of yearn for her. like, you know, she needs the help. Her son’s gone. Yeah. And then final adult character, Chief Hopper, he’s got the best arc of the season. You know, he starts off as a jaded, cynical drunk. And then you find out why that is. And then seeing what Joyce is going through.

gives him a purpose to help her find her work because he’s lost a child himself so he knows how deep that can cut so it gives him purpose and he rediscovers himself. Yeah. And it’s like a very satisfying arc he has to work in the season although there’s some issues with some things later on. Oh of course. Just in this season but it’s more plot points that he’s involved in. I mean like you said he’s introduced as jaded and cynical alcohol dependent and alcoholic but it’s also like

Speaker 1 (26:04.492)
the chief of the police of Hawkins. it’s like, dude, you know, so if he’s the one that looked to and he’s that what hope there is in the police in general for help to get will eventually, like you said, he kind of, gets, he gets broken down. He gets worn down by Joyce and he’s like, okay, fine. And then you obviously, like you said, he, it gets revealed to everyone why he is the way he is. lost his daughter.

And eventually they do. Yeah, he does help. He contributes a great deal. Yeah, he becomes a good supporting character. So that’s that’s all the major players. Just one last one. Does Brenner play a big part in season one? I don’t think he’s just in flashbacks mostly, isn’t he? The professor? Yes. well, yeah, he doesn’t appear just in flashbacks. He appears in season one itself. Yeah, because he’s the one that

You know, he’s like the secondary antagonist, essentially. Yeah. He’s trying to, obviously the whole point is Eleven’s escaped from the facility, Brenner and his staff members and, you know, henchmen. Oh yeah, that’s right. They start tracking her down. Essentially, taking out anyone who knows about existence, like the diner owner. It’s like he committed suicide. No, he didn’t. Yes.

secondary and then you have that scene when they end up in the school facing down the Demogorgon and you know Eleven just leaves him to his fate being essentially presumably eaten by the Demogorgon. Yes it’s the old trope we didn’t see them die so there’s still a chance they could somehow survive. I don’t mind Brenner coming back obviously we can get to this in the later seasons but I don’t mind him coming back but if they were thinking ahead which I presumably weren’t they probably would have done things

differently to make it more believable. It’s also because they don’t give a lot of ceremony to his death which is obviously a big issue we’re going to address. know what we’re referring to. It’s going to come up much later on. When they do that they give a character a major ceremony for and then just five minutes later he’s pretty much still alive which just totally knocks the stuffing out of any. But yeah like the whole yeah I think you everyone should know the plot by now. Small town.

Speaker 1 (28:28.842)
set in the 80s, know, it’s got that John Carpenter, Stephen King vibe, meets the Goonies. with, because it’s D &D and what’s going on, it has a sort of, God. Famous author, slightly racist. I can’t remember his name. I normally do.

The racist bugger who introduced the uh, call of Cthulhu and what’s his name lovecraft. Yes lovecraftian sort of elements because of the whole you know, yeah the design of the monsters on that. Yeah, exactly. And then so yeah secret lab in the town it’s like very classic kind of 80s sort of horror stuff and that’s one thing you got to the first it is genuinely scary and it’s like you don’t see that much and it’s that fear of the unknown stuff they place and

We also haven’t touched on these yet, but the score is just out of this world and the use of the music as well. Yeah. A nice blend of virtual soundtrack that sets the mood, tone and the right atmosphere with like little flashbacks, especially for anyone growing up in the eighties of their music. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. My dad and my parents are like from the sixties. So they would have been in their twenties.

by that time. But my sister was born in the late 80s. The three of them would have known the 80s music. I think my sister’s probably watched it. She might be of members of my family who used watch it. don’t know. Will I wait her comment if she tunes in tonight? She sometimes does. Oh she knows it’s on so. Yeah all right. But yeah like I said great use of music. Special effects are surprisingly sparse and it’s…

It creates tension really well just using the bit like one of the most effective things is when Joyce is setting up all the lights in her apartment to communicate with a simple device that so effectively pulls it off way better than any fancy CGI like things like that. Yeah, just a really simple way of conveying what’s going on like information wise. And the Demogorgon itself was wasn’t really largely CGI.

Speaker 1 (30:44.942)
Maybe certain aspects, guess, but it was a guy in a suit. Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah. And again, that’s even just a callback because I as I’ve seen, like the behind the scenes stuff is they try to restrict the use of seed to keep it to 1980s filmmaking techniques to keep it feeling kind of authentic. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which and it helps, you know, and I think even the demagoguery of his mouth again, I imagine there’s some CGI like for like the fine details like the teeth, but even the mouth that they were like

you know, contraptions. You know, they were like hinges. Which in itself is a flashback to the thing. If you remember that when the dog opens its head in the thing, it’s that same. It’s like those petals with all the teeth. Well, it’s not teeth in the thing. Little fact for you. If you pay attention, what you think are the teeth inside the petals in the thing is actually meant to be dog tongues. Fine. There you go. Yeah.

If you kind of watch it in ultra high def, you’ll pick up on that. So there you go. But yeah, there’s lots of callbacks to other things. obviously there’s a really cool scene where you think it’s going to be ET they do and they kind of flip that and it’s literally flip that upside down when they’re on their bikes and the vans are coming towards them. it’s all, and I say, so at ET they obviously fly over, but 11 just flips the van up. It’s basically literally turning that whole scene on its head.

Yeah, just like, yeah, yeah. 11 just focuses in that that is an error now. Yeah, it’s like literally turning that ET scene upside down. I didn’t even think of that. That was actually pretty cool. I like that. I like that you mentioned that. didn’t notice that. Consider it. Yeah, that’s I think they had that in mind when they did the scene. It was like we’re going to set it up like ET, but then literally flip it. And also the van goes upside down, upside down. So thematically clear in your head.

I think another good feel, I mean, this is not really call back, but just 11 related using her powers. Uh, so, know, remember that boy, I think it’s Troy, uh, the main bully of the gang. When he gets his comeuppance, was, you know, 11 breaks his arm. Well, unfortunately, you know, you can see where he gets his, you know, issues from.

Speaker 2 (33:00.044)
Yeah

Speaker 1 (33:07.284)
Later on, you see his mother demanding retribution, you know, playing him as the victim because obviously he’s told her some story. And obviously he’s a boy that’s clearly, you know, raised in a shell, you know, very well looked after, spoiled is the word I’m looking for before I use the wrong one. And, you know, obviously in his case, Mummy does everything for him. Ergo, he grows up with the wrong attitudes and becomes the bully.

And when he gets his cum up, his mother demands repribution and points the blame at the gang. Yeah. So I think that’s pretty much covered all of season one here. could go on for ages about who Greater is. But the one nitpick I have. Hopper makes a deal with Brenner and them. What deal does he make? Because it doesn’t seem to affect anything about him at all. Apart from later on, he gets into a car with them, but

Other than that, remember before they go into the upside down himself and Joyce when they’re captured and allowed and he says, and then he to his end and he says he made, he’s made a deal. No, this is season one. This is the end of season one. Remember like himself and of course, and he says, we made a deal and you’re never really told what the, but it doesn’t seem to affect him. There’s context to it because

If I recall correctly, because obviously in season two, well, after season one, Eleven disappears with the Demogorgon. I’m guessing just prior. I mean, can’t remember if Hopper. Yeah, no, Hopper isn’t aware of Eleven’s existence. Is he by that point? Yeah, he think he is aware of her. think they do meet. Okay. Cause I’m, if I’m trying, I’m trying to remember this correctly as to like potentially what the context could lead. Cause in season two.

11 reappears in the world and becomes Hopper’s surrogate daughter, essentially. So I’m wondering if that’s got something to do with it, but then again, circumstances actually go against what I’m thinking. Because if you remember at the end of season one, you see Hopper leaving the waffles in a box in the middle of the forest. Yeah, yeah. So he is aware of… he’s got to be aware of something of 11. But like you said, there’s a deal made between him and Brennor.

Speaker 1 (35:29.486)
prior to that, so I don’t know if he was aware of a left-of-existence at that point. Yeah. Maybe he was. That’s a good question. yeah. I’m pretty sure he is. I just watched it this weekend and people are going to think, oh no, they don’t know what they’re talking about. But hey, we’re men on the internet. It’s our god-given right to talk with blusters. But we need another re-watch, but I’m sure there’ll be like some context to it. Yeah. Because if you’re making a deal with someone like Brenner, whose whole

sci-fi thing is to look into the upside down, expand his research and whatever it was he was doing. I’d say Hopper would probably have an idea of who he was dealing with. So in order for Hopper to get something out of him, he’d probably need to provide something in return. But someone like Brenner, Brenner probably wouldn’t give you something without gaining. That’s a very good question. Well, I am just looking at, just looking at the Wikipedia, just to see. I can’t remember. And I did watch this this weekend.

Yeah, I can’t remember if he is aware of Eleven’s existence. He’s got to be. Because I do remember. Maybe it was something that they were going to provide more explanation for in season two. Yep, if there was a season two at that point. Because I think it feels like a cliffhanger thing. Yeah. Almost. Well, not quite a cliffhanger, but like, know. It was designed to be.

It was going to be a cliffhanger and not a cliffhanger at the same time. That’s what they had in mind because they didn’t have a clue how this was because I think the creators just said they were hoping it would just reach out to an audience and that would be it. They did not anticipate the success this was going to have. It’s going to reach us out because they thought, it’s D &D based 80s stuff. Like this is just ultra nerd stuff, but it’s not nerd into the mainstream, as we say. So, yeah, pretty much a perfect season. Just that minor nitpick aside.

Everything else it just builds nicely to this and it’s a nice straightforward conclusion and I think that’s what all the other ones miss is just kept grounded and quite small scale. Because there we get to season two and of course what do you do bigger and badder villain? Well in this case villains with a hint of villain behind the scenes. Yes which we don’t know about yet. mind flayer is introduced. Season two is…

Speaker 1 (37:51.374)
pretty good all the same. There is, I do have issues with it, but we’ll get onto like new character introduced in Maxine just slots so well into the friends group. Also, I like that she’s kind of doing that self-aware of the tropes that are going on that they’re following her around, gazing at her and she calls them out as the stalkers they are. Yeah, she’s like, obviously, you as you’ll explore Lishrorn in the season.

She has her own backstory. And obviously you come to real, you know, notice almost immediately that Billy is her stepbrother introduced and is largely a dick. goes through an interesting character arc. quite like his. Probably a few spots that kind of maybe either hit close to home or could do with retweaking, but it is done quite well because he is, you’re very much, he’s a projector, you know, a bully, domineering, possessive. But as you watch his story, his and Maxine’s.

you learn why and that’s mainly because it’s something that he has learned from his father. Yeah. You know, for the same reason, because Billy as a kid was a lovely kid. And then of course he sees how his mother’s treated. He adored his mother. And of course that was no longer a thing. was just him and his dad and his dad was just an absolute menace. Billy learns off of that kind of grows to be similar, becomes disobedient, becomes rebellious.

and projects that onto other people through his personality and his actions and the way he speaks. And of course, Maxine is the, receives the brunt of that because she’s the step, little stepsister who’s introduced him to his life. Uh, she’s a threat that could get, give, could take all the way in the attention and you immediately see that tension right there. He, he has to look after her because that’s his job now because he’s now the older brother, but very reluctant to do so. Yeah.

And of course, we also get like the resolution because we’ve got to imagine 11 disappears at the end of season one. It’s not quite a satisfying return when you see what happened. She just kind of reappeared in the real world a minute later. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would have preferred it like it should have been. took her a bit of time to get back to the real world. Yeah, Probably. Yeah, well, it wasn’t interesting because we know that she reappears just through the use of like the portals.

Speaker 1 (40:13.358)
creates. And I think when she opens up that one to the upside down to send the Demogorgon away, she obviously didn’t have full proper control, goes through essentially sacrifice herself. But obviously she probably goes she disappeared, she disintegrates the Demogorgon. Yes, in the process opens a portal for herself and vanishes. And then reappears later on. I think you know, bit of passage of time would have been cool. You know, you actually don’t know how long

It was between season one and season two, or at least when you see 11 reappear. Now, if I have it up here, I think it’s about a year. Because it’s Halloween. And if I remember right, it’s Halloween in the first season. So it’s like a year’s gone past. But you still don’t know, because Hopper had been keep, you know, looking out for protecting her for that year. When she, when Hopper first finds her compared to the ending of the first season.

how much time has actually passed. I think it’s almost immediate like you said. Yeah, it’s like, or least maybe a couple of days because Hopper finds her by chance in the woods. Yeah, it’s like the whole, like he seems surprised but yet he was leaving the egg waffles out for her. So he kind of, so you must have been expecting her or, that’s always been a, that’s a plot point people bring up. But then he seems very surprised to find her at the same time.

I’m guessing it was something the writers may or may not have forgotten about or they remember just specific detail from the first season built upon it but forgot about what it originally alluded to or how, I guess.

Speaker 1 (41:59.692)
And so yeah, that’s and who else is and the other is Bob, which is a recurring stranger things trope is we introduce a really lovely, charming character who we’re going to brutally and tragically kill off towards the end at some point. And this year, because in this first season, it was the restaurant owner. He was the nice guy helped out Eleven and he gets kind of offed. This one is Bob. Season three is Alexei.

and season four. Netflix. Eddie. Yes. I think this is the brothers though. I think you’ve got it. This is the writers more than Netflix. You’ve got to point the finger at. Yeah. I suppose. Yeah. It was a genius idea. Sean Astin, an icon of these kind of small town adventure. Yeah. Yeah. course. The head of the Goonies basically. I love his character so much. Yes. He provides, you know, he’s the new partner to Joyce. Just lovely bubbly nerdy. So he’s a good, he’s a good

parental figure or at least an inspiration for Will to grow up with. Because obviously the dynamic between Jonathan and Will is Jonathan is not nerdy. He loves his cameras and everything in photography, but he’s not overly, he’s not really nerdy, whereas Will is. So if he has a nerd sort of father figure in his life, he has something to look up to. And that was Bob’s role. And him also being one of the original AV members, or least his founder, I think, if I recall.

provides that extra little boost, that nerd boost. I just love his character so much and his relationship with Will is just fantastic. And not just Will, but the gang as well. He relates to them, he speaks to them as equals. It’s fantastic. And I think you also share a sense of humor at times going back. Some of the things you come out with in our talk room at times, I can definitely see a good bit of Bob in you.

Speaker 1 (43:54.432)
Also, I need to remember what I’m talking about to begin with. No, it’s just some of you are very sarcastic. Like they’re all one-liners that you have when we’re in our chat room. It’s very Bob-like. He’s got like his cringe puns as well. yeah, of course. mean, puns run in my family. I do come from another family, largely in my mother’s side. So my dad, he’s a nerd. He’s very much into Star Trek. He grew up, lived and breathed Star Trek. He’s also one these people when he was growing up would look at something

disassemble it to figure out how it works and then figure how to put it back together. He’s got one of those minds and my mom comes from a nerdy family. They’re all star Trek people. My mom is into star Trek. My uncle dark is into star Trek. Although he’s an opera singer. My uncle Brett is into star Trek and comics. His favorite’s the incredible halt. And my late grandpa Koi, my mom’s dad, he was a massive nerd. It’s very intelligent. He loved his star Trek. He loved his opera. He loved everything. And he also worked for NASA.

Okay. Which, I’ve got to bring this up. just… Stranger Things was such a nerd and geek show, they barely ever mentioned Star Trek, if ever. I don’t recall any Star Trek references. True, because Star Trek, mean, by that point, what was it, like, 84, 83, 84 something? So TOS had been out, they’d had the two films and the animated series, so you would think the kids would reference it, but there’s not single reference to Star Trek to be found, which is kind of quite odd, I find.

Unless there’s a reason for it. Unless it’s just that they are bigger into Lord of the Rings and Star Wars because they mention that heavily. I mean the impression I get off the kids, I’d argue that maybe one or two of them could be into Star Trek but they seem to me like you said Lord of the Rings fantasy. Fantasy based. Yeah which is, say I got a comment on season two which was these references were getting up, they went overboard a bit here with it.

Like they were just kind of before it was the setting of the, but there was a little bit of, isn’t this cool? This was in the eighties. Do you know we’re in the eighties now? It’s a bit too much. It gets a bit too much a few times. I luckily I suppose in that aspect, kind of purged that from a month, but yeah, like, is it like we’re going to the arcade, we’re going to cosplay as the Ghostbusters. Yeah. Of course. Cause that’s how they meet Max. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 (46:24.396)
I suppose I can, I mean, then Cosplay is the Ghostbusters. It was a very 80s thing. We’ve been watching Goldberg’s and there’s a few, there’s a few scenes where, the main characters, two of the main characters dressed up as Ghostbusters as well. So I think that’s very much an 80s thing. So I don’t mind that. But if it’s like very obvious in your face references is okay, yeah, we get it. Yeah. What are two like little drop-ins that just represent a casual life or you see in the background, you know, things like that would be cool.

Yeah, so have we gone through all the new characters? Yeah, we have. Maxine, Billy, got Bob. You have… What’s his name? The professor doctor who’s working at the lab now, who’s actually a good guy. Yeah, yeah, he is. That’s what’s his name? Bark Ramelliant? Yeah, I can’t remember his character’s name, but he was he was pretty good. I almost did kind of forget his character, who he was in the…

when the third season came about with the four, yeah, when he’s the fourth season, he reappears in season four. Who are you? But no, I liked his character. He was trying his best to be, to like reform Hawkins Lab, and try his best to like kind of help Will go through what he was going through because Will coming from the upside down, being infected with

demodog essentially and also having connection to the mind flayer because this is how the mind flayer introduces through this telekinesis and these memories or thoughts that Will has in dreams. These are terrors. Yeah, yeah and all right I’m going to go on one big issue I have with this season is at the very start it’s such an intriguing opening that if you remember it cuts to Chicago we see this gang

committing a robbery or something I think. And it’s that girl and she does some mind tricks. You see the nosebleed and you see number eight on her for safe? No, this is just season two this happens. does… Yep. Okay. This is the opening of season two. it never comes back to it until the following season. Until season… Until episode seven of this season. And what happens is episode six has built up to the conclusion.

Speaker 1 (48:41.262)
And you’re all waiting and then it’s just this episode suddenly. I remember now because. And there is zero payoff to any of this. There’s nothing. doesn’t. The only thing, the only thing it affects is because Eleven and Hopper haven’t fallen out. She runs away. Hence where you get that song. she’s a runaway. and then you see her little story occur in that episode. And it is, it is very much.

What? Pointless. I think number eight, think it was at Kali, can’t remember her name now. Yeah, yeah, I can’t remember. I think she does reappear in the next season, so it does trait her character. But that episode does feel very… It’s what I call what they infamously did. Did you watch Book of Boba Fett? Yes, yes I did. And suddenly… I enjoyed Book of Boba Fett but…

And then two thirds of the way in it became the Mandalorian for no reason. And that’s exactly what happens here. It’s like, I feel like that gang should have been a spinoff show and suddenly they kind of just lumped it in here. And there have been people online saying, if you skip out episode seven, it actually flows better. The only thing that doesn’t explain it is why Eleven suddenly has a new haircut and clothes. Imagine the excuse, the writing excuse would be.

11 is just trying to reconfirm her identity. doesn’t know who she is. Probably something along those lines. I’m not a professional writer, obviously. Yeah. best I’ve done is fan fictions, even in a long time ago, but someone who is a professional writer does this for living or, or just for analysis would probably say, well, the way it was handled. Just seems like it’s like you said, just slumped in. Like there’s no reason for that. There’s no buildup for her to do that. Yeah. She, yeah.

She runs away because she has a falling out because that is what teenagers do. But the way it’s hap- I think the episode could have been handled differently to incorporate Eleven going through what she was going through as a teenager in a much better light. I wouldn’t know what the solution would be to make it flow better while also contributing to the main story. But they could have portrayed that better, definitely. Unless, like the way I have always thought about it would be if you extended the last steps and just have a

Speaker 1 (51:05.07)
appear at the lab in the finale and just do two clever flashbacks to where she was. yeah, definitely. Because it didn’t need an entire episode just out of the blue and it breaks up the rhythm of season two so badly towards the end. Yeah, it just comes out and it was… And all you… Who’s this Axel person and he doesn’t like spiders and you know have you know the number you know eight essentially using his fears against him and it’s just like hmm.

Yeah, and then all you learn is Brenner is still alive. Oh yeah, of course. That’s the only bit of new story progression you get there. And even then, that doesn’t pay off for a long time knowing that. Yeah, do what I’ve just thought of, just as a comparison? Because obviously I’ve watched season two prior to this film I’m about to reference. But just now thinking about it, felt very somehow Brenner has returned. Yes, ah yes, I know what you’re saying. It’s Rise of Skywalker.

Somehow he returned. If you want to go out there, there’s a guy on YouTube and he redubs the Star Wars prequels. And he’s got a long running thing. there’s one episode where Sidious is forming the new South Council after Order 66. Right, who are we going to recruit? And then up on the hollow camera comes Sidious. then Anakin goes, hold on, didn’t I kill you? He goes, yes.

violently decapitated would be too lightsabers but somehow I survived yeah yeah that’s yeah definitely somehow they survived that will come back once or twice it definitely feels like they needed a new antagonist secondary antagonist and they’re like looking about who’s that in the bin well you’re alive again yep but yeah that’s it

basic what’s the basic outline it’s just will’s having his flashbacks to his time in the upside down the alternate dimension yep and he starts seeing the visions of the mind flayer and then it found out the mind flayers infected him and he’s a spy for the mind flayer and he sets track really good stuff like flipping around and then bob comes into his own you know the map that’s drawn he’s able to crack it in a second which is

Speaker 1 (53:26.496)
That’s a really cool scene. Again, very simple use. Just like so simply done, just so effective. did you have to die Bob? Why? Yes, why? Sadly, we don’t get us somehow he survived because he gets basically chewed alive. It’s a gruesome death. Yeah, it really is. Well, I would have loved that kind of somehow he survived because that would have been awesome. But it’s like, it’s probably the most brutal death of the whole show, it? When you see him.

Like the nicest, most lovable character gets torn apart alive in front of everyone. again, have referencing Brenner from the previous season, both killed in similar manners. Well, yeah. So basically, like you said earlier, Brenner’s death was off camera. You don’t see anything. And then, you know, and Brenner is very much a dick. And then like you said, Bob.

loveliest character, nicest guy in the world. And he gets the most brutal execution known. And no, not only that, quite graphically on the screen as well, which I couldn’t believe. I thought, okay, it’s going to jump and they’ll cut away, but no, they keep cutting back to him getting torn to shreds in front of the characters. They could have cut away from when Joyce was screaming out in slow motion. That would have been enough. Yeah, just see him getting jumped and that’s it. don’t, but they had to show

Poor Sean Astin, who is also in real life the nicest man in the world, getting viciously torn apart. Maybe if they had done that jump scene, just choice, scream in slow motion, and then next scene, then of course following season, somehow Sean Astin returns. So, weren’t you brutally eaten to death by demon dogs? Yes, but somehow I survived. But yeah, would, where would I, so…

We could have through most of it. We’re not going through the plot because I’m guessing just everyone knows if you’re watching this, we’d be here all day kind of explaining it. So season three? So season two will rank it second best for me. Yeah, I did thoroughly enjoy it. don’t know though. Changing your mind? I’ll wait. think we’ll wait. Season one’s solid top. I think it’s best, once we’ve reviewed like the remainders, we can probably go back to it and just rank it. But yeah, season one’s…

Speaker 1 (55:50.414)
Yeah, season one’s always good. Yeah, season three. boy, boy, boy. It’s like I said, it’s like all the characters are high on cocaine the way they behave. Hopper especially. It’s like Hopper, he’s got a short temper. He is, he’s short tempered guy. He’s not a volatile, violent psychopath. Let’s point that out. Which is what he becomes in this.

He’s constantly shouting. He’s constantly brutally attacking people or murdering people all the bloody time. And you start to hate him in this season. I started to actively dislike him because I kept saying, shut up and just do what Joyce is telling you all the time. suppose that the writing was just, it could have done a lot of things differently. Yep. I don’t know. I mean, like the whole California thing. mean, you get the obvious context.

Season 4 is California. Season 3 is the mall and the secret Russian base. Yes, that’s right. And season 3 is where Billy has his revolution or his character arc. Yes, right at the end. yeah, so we’ll start with… This is where we get introduced to the Mind Flayer. The horror aspect of it, I actually quite enjoy. Yes. It was gross, but was cool. It’s the most grossest of the seasons, like the body horror stuff.

exploding rats, exploding people who then… God. But it helps… gunk of… Convils and to… emphasise what’s the mind flayer, or rather, we’ll come to this in the fourth season, what’s behind the mind flayer does. And that kind of influenced me to write… When I was doing a Star Trek… What was it, Star Yeah. Yeah, I was doing a… Well, this applied to a Star Trek role play I was doing, as well as a D &D campaign. It helped the whole body horror things of exploding.

helped me influence me to do something similar in those two role plays respectively. And it was kind of fun. But yeah, it’s just you deal with that. That’s like the subplot. It starts off the subplot with like certain people behaving strangely when they come close to the barn. get kind of like, you know, the encounter, the mind flayer. And of course this is what happens to Billy. You know, him actively going after lack of a better term, Cougars.

Speaker 1 (58:14.156)
Yes, namely Nancy’s mum, which I understand in this situation. She’s kind of she feels neglected. You know, she feels like she’s just the mother. She’s just the wife. I just had so that’s that’s like her purpose. It’s been hinted at that she did kind of marry under family pressure to marry this wealthy business guy or something along that this older. Yeah, he’s very well off anyway. Yeah. And he’s totally disconnected from.

everything that goes around him he doesn’t care about anything like yeah and of course you know when she encounters billy and billy’s giving it yeah she moves on her yeah she feels young she feels needed someone wants me because she doesn’t get that home like like i said before she she just feels like only a housewife and a mother like that’s her role and then along comes this younger person who makes her feel better and good about herself of course they’re about to rendezvous

But she has second, second thoughts because she’s a mother. She is a wife. She has a family. She backs out for the right reasons, even though, you know, namely for her daughter, I would say more than anything. And of course that’s where Billy has his little crash and then encounters the mind flayer in the, I don’t think it’s a barn, it’s like an old, it’s an old factory warehouse type thing. And he essentially becomes the

Avatar or the voice of the mind flayer. Yeah, he’s kind of recruiting more zombies Which brings me this is like a big problem. have with season 3 like if you remember the other two seasons The mysteries are set up, but it takes a while to pay off. Whereas in this one we’re told in season 1 There’s a Russian base. The Russians are trying to do this and we’re told the mind flayer is recruiting people so There’s no mystery for the rest of the season

that’s a big part of Stranger is the mystery and the characters. Yeah, you’re shown directly what’s going on because as opposed, I mean, they could have like hinted Russian base. mean, I don’t mind the Russian base at all, but I see where you’re coming from. It’s just like something. Hi, we’re a Russian base. We’re under a small village. Yes. But if they’re like, like leaving like, like small little hints here and there, that’s better. And if they weren’t so in your face, like switching scenes constantly, you know, going from

Speaker 1 (01:00:38.83)
Hi Dustin, we’re meeting here today and then suddenly five minutes later, know, two guys speaking Russian in Russian uniform. Hello, comrade. I sound more like Vlad Dracula, but you know. Yes. And you just mentioned Dustin there and I’ve got to say, one of the most, we didn’t touch on this in season two. One of the most genius things they ever did was teaming up Dustin with, what’s his name again? Steve. I’ve got his name already.

You have Robin as well. mean, three of them just gel so well together. love them. But I’m just saying in the second season, Dustin and Steve just became the most amazing bromance you’ve ever seen. brilliant because obviously Steve becomes this surrogate big brother to him and Dustin latches on. I love him forever. It’s just an adorable relationship because it’s like built out of frustration. Like Steve is like, oh for f***.

He’s dealing with this little kid who’s just constantly getting his attention and just grows on him because Dustin’s lovely. Yeah, and he kind of eventually takes on Dustin. Look, I’ll show you, I’ll tell you how to style your hair for the ladies. It’s really cute how it does. And they like can constantly contact with each other as well. It’s brilliant. I love it. And then like, you know, at the start of season three, Dustin’s been away at summer camp and they’re seeing where he comes into Scoop’s Ahoy and they see each other. It’s just so…

heartwarming. Yeah that was hilarious. I love that. They’re like hey you’re just over excited it’s cool. And they do their secret bro handshake and all this. And Robin’s just going how are you friends with all these kids? Oh yeah she just like yeah she gets overly concerned. It’s like you know that kid fair enough. Then just you know you see more kids enter Steve’s live and she’s like. And speaking of that we will talk about Robin. Some people don’t like her. She is one of the

bright spot of the season. love Robin. I mean her sort of her one-liners, her reactions, her skepticism, she has a certain level of comedy. She’s hilarious and she provides that nice little balance between Dustin and Steve. Yeah and also probably fair to say she does, I don’t know if it’s intentional or they wrote it, but it’s very obvious as someone who’s neurodivergent. She is

Speaker 1 (01:03:02.51)
impactful at neurodivergent rates. yeah, I didn’t think about that. You keep saying my mouth runs on before my mind. Yeah, of course. there’s a lot of… Yeah, yeah. mean, she probably would be the only one with neurodivergence in the series as a whole. But yeah, I can see that. Speaking of neurodiverse as well. Yeah, well, it’s like I’ve said plenty of times, we are involved in organizing a convention.

When we have our meetings, think the autism meter is just completely off the scale. Well, whenever you’re in a geek gathering, it’s fair to say your autism meter just goes right off the scale. Yeah, I like to think if it’s not autism, it’s ADHD, or sometimes it’s both. Yes, but no, Robin, absolute, and herself and Steve’s friendship as a builds. it’s just… also really, really fantastically done coming out.

moment for Robin as well. It was really clear. It doesn’t come as a shock. It doesn’t. But at the same time, it’s not been telegraphed. It just feels so natural. The other impact is that in the 80s as well. She probably also realizes Steve’s a ladies man. He’s probably a very macho alpha. If I tell him this, how’s he going to he’s probably going to react really badly.

So you can see she was putting little seeds into his mind just to see. Yeah, test them. And largely he was oblivious to it all up until the point, because obviously she had to relate to him on how they fell for someone that they couldn’t have. And obviously she described a male and I think insinuated that it was Steve. And I think that’s how he interpreted it. But then it’s kind of no, she’s just using Steve as a…

she was talking about Steve in the classroom and that this girl was infatuated with her. Yeah. And she just says, I was so jealous, but she, Steve thinks jealous of him. But she’s actually jealous of her because she was attracted to her. Yeah. Her attention was on Steve because he’s the good looking stereotypical good looking guy in school. Yeah. Of course. yeah, that’s like I said, that’s the two main, it’s not just the two main stories really. It’s what’s going on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29.41)
with Billy, which is, and I say this, right, I’m going to put this on that. I love any film when the Soviets are involved. I’m a sucker for, I just don’t know why you can infer whatever you want to, but I just love it. But somehow they made it off. Yeah. It’s like Cold War thrillers and all that. of got a good soft spot, but this made the Soviets just, the Soviet plot was just so boring and just secondary.

The Mind Flayer stuff was way, way more interesting, which was annoying because that trio were invested, the trio we really liked, were the ones investigating the Soviets. Yeah, I did like that story. And again, you know, building up to the Soviet station could have done like just more hints and less in your face about things. I would probably would have liked that. I mean, I like the fact that they do have a secret facility. Of course, like you mentioned prior to this recording, how did they build it?

Obviously the context you’re given is through the mall, mall communications with secret delivery services, blah, blah, blah. That’s how they set up. I think what would have been kind of neat is if you see this facility, like when you actually are introduced to this facility as if it weren’t a work in progress. Because it looks like it’s been set up for at least a good number of years or so long as line. Yeah. And also the sheer number of people working down there. How do you get

basically a whole Soviet battalion into the American heartland unnoticed. Yeah. I mean, they could have done that with like a small, maybe like very specially chosen elite soldiers and guards and as well as the hierarchy of officers, like a small group with mercenaries hired as small guards. Like see, it would have worked if like, see when they went down the elevator, if it wasn’t this pristine, almost James Bond like hideout.

It was like rough tunnels and lights flickering. It’s just like a rogue kind of operation that would work better as that. Something that blends well with the atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t stand out. Yeah, because like I said, like to build this, that massive complex, how do they pull that off? It’s just a question that just overrides all of it and it kind of pulls you out of it. an entire Soviet battalion downstairs. And not only that, that

Speaker 1 (01:07:53.644)
This mall’s been in operation for a number of months. Yeah, yeah. And they’re taking a lot of deliveries from China and the people taking the deliveries at the back are armed with AK-47s. And said, surely someone in the town has noticed this. I thought, this is a bit weird. Why does a shopping mall need guards with AK-47s? I know it’s America. And I know they’ve got a problem with guns, but surely not to that level.

I love the idea just in my head. know, you know, like they’re seeing this mall being built. again, like you said, you know, delivery service, you know, truck guys, showing basically showing off, you know, going around with AK 47s, some town pass by looks in and goes normal. Yeah. Yeah. We know America’s got some gun issues, but surely not to that level where they’re saying, there’s, there’s guys taking deliveries with guns there. that’s just, yeah.

That’s just candy for the children. Yes. Okay. But yeah, so that and of course our new character for this tune you know, we forgot one character who was introduced in season two, which was Murray. Yes, who’s played by Ian. conspiracy theorist. And it’s like very rare. Murray. Murray was his name. I can’t remember the actor’s name. I know the actor’s name is Ian, who also portrays.

quite a few other characters in other series. But I know who you’re on about. Yeah. No, but he is also fantastic. I’m not… He was well done. I don’t have much time for conspiracy theorists in real life, but this guy portrayed him in a way where you can say, right, I genuinely get why he is this way. It makes sense. the fact the way he’s introduced, you forget about him. Because he was introduced in the first season, I think. No, the second season. he was introduced the second. But yeah. Not only that. He’s a conspiracy theorist.

One or two scenes, didn’t he? No, he was actually in quite a number of episodes. Because remember, it’s Nancy and Jonathan go to him first. Yes, that’s right. I he has at least one brief scene in either season one, but he just shows up as the well-known conspiracy theorist’s local. No, he’s mentioned. I think he’s mentioned. He was a journalist who got fired for his conspiracy theories. And then, of course, I love that. That’s how he’s introduced as this sort of very vague character and then…

Speaker 1 (01:10:19.022)
eventually you kind of see it. And then of when he meets Nancy and Jonathan and they’re bickering and he does this to Hopper and Joyce, look two of yous just stop it get naked and have sex. No it’s obvious to everyone because there’s that wonderful, we haven’t mentioned him yet but when he’s in the car with Alexi and says, whenever he says to them when they’re in the car just shouting at them will you stop this and just have sex already and then he lies back.

And Alexei goes, what’s the problem? He they’ve not had sex. They’ve not had sex. Funny people. It’s like even when the nice Russian guy can pick up on that fact. Yes. Even like he can’t speak their language, which was a… But I looked it up because I knew, like we said before, I noticed there was some bad run of Russian, as an amateur Russian learner. There was some obvious if and net, but he is genuine Russians. He’s Ukrainian, he’s British Ukrainian and he does speak…

Russia, you just speak Russian, Ukrainian, Polish and English, guy he’s got multilingualist. But Alexi was just, and I have to say the second I saw him with a slurp, you thought, no, they’re going to kill you. And it’s going to be either heartbreaking or horrifying. He was more, I think you expected him to die compared to Bob. Bob was unexpected. It was like, what the, know, what was Alexi, you held out hope that he was going to remain there.

But then of course, you know, when it does its usual tropes, it shows like these lovely little scenarios and he gets what he actually wants. And then you see the KGB assassinating him. Well, you know, at the end of the when he’s at the fairground, says to Morrie, oh, when I become an American citizen, said, oh, he’s doomed. He’s talking about hopes and dreams in a genre show. And on the subject of his death, that guy that chases them.

We get it, he’s meant to be the Terminator. It’s like, this is what I say when they overdo it. You could have just done, you could have had him be an assassin and just subtle nods of the butt. You have him use the same speech patterns as the Terminator, the same walk. And it’s just like, he’s basically indestructible. It’s like, yeah, we get it. It’s the eighties. The Terminator was a thing in the eighties. We understand. Oh God. Yeah. I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42.186)
I think maybe for him to be more effective would be less scenes. mean you can understand the sort of flat delivery because he’s an assassin, he’s a hitman for the KGB. But you know, less scenes with him would have had more of an impact I guess, I think. Yeah. And yeah, what else was I meaning to touch? Yeah, the 80s references were… this is when they went into overdrive and cranked them up everywhere. There’s even a whole scene with Max…

becomes friends with 11 which when I saw that said why didn’t you think of this before they would actually become friends but there’s a whole scene where they go to the shopping mall and they try on lots and lots of there’s a fashion montage of 80s outfits and there’s even like and I’m now I’m now correctly I don’t know but when the 11s and max’s they’re at you know they’re at 11’s house

they’re looking through the magazines oh look it’s Ralph Macchio the catty kid I bet he’s a good kisser on that it’s like I don’t know it just I was thinking I think Max would be above thinking of boys in that way she always comes across as being a bit more yeah she came across like more tomboyish at the very least and yes she wouldn’t be swooning for the cute guys at all no I think yeah I think she would definitely would have been one of those types that

you know for yeah like you said she wouldn’t swoon or at the very least if she did it wouldn’t be obvious she’d try to hide it you know or and it definitely wouldn’t be for a conventional heartthrob either no no no she just wouldn’t have gone for the kinetic but that was just let’s shove another 80s referencing lucas would have needed work to work hard for that so yeah but i i do i do like this idea that um because i can’t remember i don’t quite

know how the ratio, I can’t remember how the relation actually builds up. It probably does feel very more forced just for convenience and everyone needs to tear off maybe. But one thing that could have, you know, probably could have gone is, you know, Lucas probably would have, you know, it always starts off as sort of friction based thing. And that’s another trope, friction into love sort of thing. But one thing that could have worked is maybe Lucas, you know, feel it starts having feelings for Maxine, but Maxine probably kind of rejects it. don’t, maybe kind of like

Speaker 1 (01:15:06.574)
But you know, pushes it off, I guess, but I don’t know how that would have worked in comparison. Or maybe it would have been, you know, Lucas builds films for gets rejected and maybe learns to accept that. That could have been a pretty good way of showing growth and very young characters, you know, maybe for, you know, for Lucas to be mature enough to accept it, or even just like kind of resist it at first and then gradually accept it. Well, it’s interesting because I think that was a theme.

they were trying for at the start was growth because two of them are now got girlfriends and they didn’t really explore this a lot and I wish they had was the idea that Will he’s missed out on a chunk of his childhood because remember he’s the one still cosplaying when he does D &D and playing the music and yes that’s right and like they reject all of that and it’s like they never really explored that yeah he’s missed out

His friends have had that and he hasn’t had that. He missed out on a lot of that stuff. And so he’s almost playing catch up to their growing up all the time. definitely. And it’s just not explored. It’s just like a few scenes here and there, but just that could have really been really fleshed out a hell of a lot better. Oh, definitely. I mean, I think you probably noticed this yourself. Yeah. But the strange things in terms of writing, throw these, throw these good ideas or good concepts and then leave them there.

Yes, speaking of this, the past two seasons, they always had that moment when all the characters come together and they’re explaining what’s going on. it’s what I’ve always liked is the kids coming from the kid point of view, the teens of the team and the adults. And then they all come up with this is how we’re going to. And it’s always like a really creative way they’ve done it. Like I think in season two, it’s like.

Dustin’s trying to explain completely in D &D references and Hopper’s just getting what to speak English to. I love that. I quite like that idea as well. Something I love about Stranger Things as a whole, you see different perspectives and you follow all three of them because obviously they’re right in your face, they’re explained to you. But if you’re like one of the, if you’re either all three groups or at least one of the groups, can understand, you can understand, you can definitely understand one of groups, that’s for sure. And if you’re like a nerd,

Speaker 1 (01:17:28.61)
You who grew up with D &D as a kid or even an adult you understand the D &D for references If you’re currently a teen you understand like the teen tropes the relationships that are built and just what teens are going through in general then of course you have the adult so Which is its own interesting thing Yeah, because you don’t really have that scene in season three like it’s always been like the other Tuesday when they come up with their plan to defeat every And here they’re just all at the mall suddenly and they just and they don’t do

And again, they don’t mix up the teams in an interesting way. They don’t try any new partnerships, which is like, I almost feel like when they hit upon Dustin and Steve, they just, this is too good. can’t break that. They’ve got to be together. It makes sense. And of course introducing Robin, that makes the trio just brilliant. I love that trio. But like you said, I think, yes, with the other side of the team, because I think they largely switch it into two teams really with adults on side.

The adults go down to the Soviet base. And the other, it’s it’s split up between them. Kind of take out the mind flayer. Yeah. And I think you have the 11 Maxine dynamic, which is pretty good. But yeah, I think more interactions with different team members would be very interesting. Or at having maybe one of the kids characters somehow ending up with the adult. So, yeah, I think if, if like, if they introduced like a little

sub-story like just before the adults went and did their thing, if one of the kids just somehow ended up with them, that would have introduced an idea that’s like, adults have to do what they do, get into the Soviet base and find out what they’re responsible for, but they also have the responsibility of ensuring this kid’s safety. That would have been interesting, I think. Yeah, it was. And then at the end, of course, there’s the early redemption moment. I quite liked it.

I like it apart from one thing. didn’t make much sense to me that it was Eleven that brought him back. It should have been Maxine. Yes, I agree because… Because at that point… Sorry, carry on. Yeah, Eleven has like the powers to connect the people, like the telekinesis and some form of telepathy as well. But I think it makes more sense, you know, obviously at Eleven to be involved, but to act as a conduit between Maxine and Billy. Yeah. But now I’m trying to remember, and again, I’ve just watched…

Speaker 1 (01:19:54.754)
Did she was that at the point she’d lost her powers though 11? I think she had. So like having Maxine do it would have wouldn’t have really changed much. And it would have worked better because she should have had that emotional moment with Billy just to see him do that. You know, actually be the one that makes him do the self sacrifice to help everyone. But, you know, him ultimately being self sacrifice was a pretty good moment in itself because

He realized what truly mattered and then, you know, tried to resist the mind flayer and, you know, became a huge distraction to allow the kids like do what they did to defeat it. So, yeah, I don’t think anything else we can add apart from, yeah, we’ve got to add what we alluded to earlier, Hopper’s fate at the end. Yeah, his sacrifice.

But somehow he survived. Just like dodging bits of the lift. It’s that it wasn’t even done in a way where you were convinced he was really dead to begin with. That’s what got me. Because they did the big swelling heroic music and then they cut back. Oh, he’s nowhere to be seen in this explosion. Yeah. You don’t actually see it. So where’s he gone? And then.

the end is the music swelling a big emotional and I just yeah he’s still alive yeah he’s in a gulag somewhere yeah you don’t so you don’t see him at the end but oh no at the end it was like uh yeah 11 was like reading out the letter that he never got to read out to him yes that I did like that that was nice but at the same time I just we didn’t actually see him die so I know he’s still alive and then

Why on earth did he decide to put that teaser that he was still alive at the end? Just leave that out, he didn’t need to do that. Yeah, because I think him maybe showing up just again, Brenner’s style in the fourth season might have had more impact than that would have had more impact for the reason why he… At least they explain how, which is good. It’s not great. It’s not great. It’s just a poor convenience how he survived. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12.398)
But you it still explains. You kind of watch it go, okay. You know, it’s not somehow he returned, but you But then there’s also questions about how they got him out to the Gulag. Yeah, yeah, because there’s a massive explosion under this mall. Yeah, there’s still a battalion of Soviet soldiers in uniform that somehow get him out when I’m guessing the area above the mall is under police surveillance or something like that.

and they get them all the way over to Russia somehow. I don’t know. It’s like, how do they get them to that Gulag? It’s again, it’s just, well. It’s almost like the writer said, there’s no plausible way we can explain how they transport them that anyone has seen. Russian Gulag is another complex itself set in another small town just to the north. Well, no, it’s actually, it is given a specific location.

I don’t know if it’s like in Siberia but it’s definitely in Russia and so it’s on the come out of Cabana check Palo Alto. So if you know your map of Russia, yeah, you got the Bering Strait and there’s that massive peninsula. Yeah, yeah, is that close to the the strait that connects Alaska and Russia? Yeah, the Bering Strait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like a huge. It’s also when you talk about any land area in Russia, it’s like

Massive beyond words. Now I’m trying remember where Hawkins is based because obviously, you know, the part of season four takes place in California. Illinois. It’s Illinois. Illinois. I’m trying to remember if that’s east coast, central or west. Right. I will have to look that up. Keep talking while I look up the Google Maps. So because the other thing to factor in, like you mentioned prior, is how they got from place A to place B. And if Hawkins, Illinois is really far away, if there’s like a lot of distance to cover,

Okay. makes things more, you know, how do you do that covertly, especially if you’re going over multiple different states? So Illinois is where Chicago is next to Wisconsin. it’s still West Coast. Well, it’s actually closer to New York and California. so it’s, they’ve got to go over there, then somehow get through Canada, Alaska. It’s huge, huge difference distance they got from somehow.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31.534)
Unless of course Russians secretly have teleporters. Yes, well we never know, crafty Russians anyway. Thankfully though, much as though I’m annoyed at that, they do… Having the Soviet base be a gulag is so much better than an underground base. And it’s done really well. It’s brutal, it’s cool, it’s like everything you could imagine a gulag to be. I was invested in Hopper’s story in the gulag. It was actually pretty cool. I enjoyed it.

mean, season four in general was quite good, but again, obviously without nitpicking how he got there is, yeah, it’s a thing. the fact that, um, you know, these, you know, the like Gulag work, yeah, they work for the livelihood to stay alive in the Gulag. And eventually at some point they’ll have to face off being torn to shreds by a demogorgon that the Russians have somehow captured. So yeah, we’re talking, we’re still talking about the start of season four before we go into it.

Because not only did they kind of reveal that Hopper was kind of, they just said the American don’t bring him out. That’s the line. And of course that was, what American? So well, there’s only going to be one American they’re going to talk Especially if they’re going to show off Russians talking about it and it seems to do with Russia. You’re like, right, okay. Then for some reason, and I’ve got to assume this was a Netflix decision, the very first teaser they made for season four, the first thing they showed was Hopper.

And I said, he could have at least built up some suspense to that. He could have just left the actor out of the press tour for a little bit and don’t mention it. And then just have that suddenly be a… And then have Joyce suddenly get that Russian doll in the mail. it would have a bit more impact. Yeah, yeah. But then you go and say, all right, we know he’s alive already. So, season four, we’re introduced to…

The main villain and it’s like I was discussing before it’s it’s great like don’t put me wrong. The actor is phenomenal. Like I can’t remember the actor’s name because he’s an English Jamie Lee Bower I think it is. like English actor of course it has to be an Englishman has to do the evil demonic villain but just like he’s got that really good slow deliberate Jamie Campbell Bower. Yeah

Speaker 1 (01:26:57.934)
He’s got that slow, deliberate villain delivery. Like every word he’s savaged every word. voice. And his character was, I mean, his introduction and reveal was to actually done really well. It has subtle hints when you look back on. I’ve got, okay, yeah, he’s definitely the villain. But when he’s first introduced, is like, is this meant to be this mentor, the secret mentor and guide to Levin? And he poses himself as a prisoner as well. So he tries to help Levin bust out. And it’s not.

all done in one scene. It’s done gradually throughout the season in bits and pieces and then eventually you get the reveal where all the memories click back and you see him actually turn. Yeah. Yeah and it’s also done in such a way where Eleven thinks she caused that massacre because all she sees is herself in blood with the bodies around her and Brenner saying what did you do? Yeah.

And so like, it’s like a really cool switch to realize she was, it wasn’t her all along. it’s like, yeah, his whole reveal and also the, he’s Henry Creel, listen, his father was Victor Creel. Yes, yes, he’s Henry Creel. An alleged kind of serial murderer in Hawkins. again, that’s like it. like, mean, most movies and TV series try to go with a red herring trope.

And my experience, quite a few of them kind of fail because they’re too obvious. Whereas the way season four handles it is quite brilliantly done. mean, there’s an aspect that you know that Victor, I mean, Victor Creel is presented as potential serial killer because of the past and he has this reputation. You know, he’s a red herring and you know, it’s an obvious one. You know, there’s something behind it because Vecna is the one behind it. So Victor Creel is an obvious red herring. Then you think, okay, Vecna is the main bad guy. He is.

And you don’t know where he comes from, how he exists. And all you can think of, he just comes from the upside down. is, you know, as a kid, as a kid sort of give off is the, um, the Vecna is the mind flayers top five star general. And you kind of think that first, but then the more you watch it, the more things kind of click and then realize, no, Vecna is the one that’s behind the scenes. And you don’t really, you don’t reconnect.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20.524)
the 11’s memories along with what’s happening right now. Yeah. And then of course the real happens and all clicks together and that realization is so cool. love it. And it’s funny because Victor, like when he’s being interviewed in the prison by Nancy and Robin, he kind of just basically tells you, he gives you a huge clue, which is done in such a way you don’t realize because he says,

my boy was a quiet one and then he doesn’t mention his son again. Yeah, it’s true. So it’s like the ignored son again, kind of going a bit like with Billy as well. Yeah. But it was, I was more than abused and like, you know, this whole thing of ignored sons of being ignored. Yeah. I think in Victor’s case, it was like he came home, he had a nice family daughter, you two kids, lovely life. know, he was a war veteran, if I recall correctly as well. So it’s like almost that

50s American stereotype. Yeah. And you know, everyone goes up like with rumors of the Victor Creel house and you know, he, what he first perceives as the house being cursed because you know, animals start dead and everything. He has no idea why. He doesn’t really suspect his son. Cause as he said, his son was quiet. And like you said, Lisa at that. And when you think back on it, it’s like, okay, there’s a reason why he left his son out. Yes. Silence speaks louder. Yeah.

because then you find out he had his son basically committed in the end. Yes, he did. Yeah. And so that’s why you left it out for those. just don’t go look in there. You’re not going to like what you find. Yeah, exactly. And also probably because he presumes his son is gone as well. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that’s the so and also got to say the way Vekna kills his victims. It’s one of most primal human turnoffs is limbs at the wrong angle.

Yeah. It’s not a human being I know that can tolerate seeing that. Yeah. I it was, think almost every aspect, I think there’s more aspects of the death scenes that affect more than others. Like for me, it wasn’t so much the limbs. mean, that is creepy in itself. For me, it’s when the eyes just disappear and the jaw becomes unhinged and goes, you know, that makes it all Jesus. Yep. And it’s quite

Speaker 1 (01:31:43.438)
And again, it’s like quite cool. This is they reintroduced the using D &D references to explain what’s going on, which I was so happy to see that come back. Definitely. Because again, they’re naming another creature. I mean, yeah, you have the mind flayer and whatnot. You have to get some context as to why the mind first called that. But they purposefully give Vecna his name. Yeah. And so as always, we have to talk about new characters. There’s two…

Brand new characters and like as I hold my fingers up, it’s literally this good side and awful side. We have, we’ll go with it, Eddie. Phenomenal. What an acting performance. This guy. it’s kind of, you understand why this guy is constantly in work. is it? it Paul Quinn or something like that? can’t think so. Another English actor, but it’s just.

You understand now why he’s one of the most in demand actors of the moment right now. He is just and you see him in real life. is nothing like this guy, but it’s just it’s not only his line delivery. Like I said, I’ve always said this, like the measure of really good actors is like when they’re not talking, if they can still portray that character to you, if you can still understand and he does it so well, just his movements and his energy and all that is just so.

What an actor this guy is. think what really sets it for you is how he’s introduced. He’s like another sort of role model for the kids. They’re going through high school. They’re dealing with bullies. They’re dealing with being outcasts. Lucas is no longer one of them. You know, he’s no longer an outcast. It’s almost like he’s torn between the light and the dark. It’s almost a of a Darth Vader thing going. As he says himself, he’s with the cool kids now. He doesn’t want to screw it up.

With his own clique, he has reputation because he’s on a sporting team. So he feels like he has to sacrifice his nerd group to just to have reputate good, positive reputation and not be bullied. then so Eddie kind of almost fills that role in a sense as, know, because I know Lucas was really part of Eddie’s group and then leaves, but you see more of Eddie than you do Lucas to begin with.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03.554)
And can meet the, or Eddie’s a good role model. He’s influencing their interests and everything. And of course he fits in with them as an outcast. Everyone knows Eddie the freak. So he might as well have lots of mini freaks to be associated with them. know, he’s just a brilliant character. then he has this sort of, not commanding, he has this confidence to be himself, which is really cool. I love that. And then of course, when he,

when he kind of like helps out with the cheerleader or the cheerleader goes and speaks with him. He’s someone who likes helping others. Yes. He’s kind of behind his bravioso facade, I guess. Yeah. And he shows genuine concern for it. He just goes, oh, you’re one of the bitchy popular cheerleaders. Why would I bother? He doesn’t even, even though he speaks out against the cliques, but if one of them came for his help, he would not turn them away.

Yeah, like he’s got that really strong humanity and empathy in him. Yeah. It kind of deflects the, everyone knows him as Eddie the freak, you know, the potential satanic worshiper and everything. no one knows Eddie the helper, Eddie the big brother, Eddie the mentor. Well, it’s like, Dustin says right at the end, when he’s speaking to his uncle, he never stops being Eddie. Yeah. So that’s the great thing. He never ever stopped being Eddie for one second.

Definitely. And then, you know, when you see him, his reaction to Christine’s death, you feel that. He gets frantic, he gets worried, like, what the hell, what’s going on? And then he sees what’s happening and he shrieks. It’s not like a manly scream or anything. It’s like, it’s not a yell, it’s a shriek. Yeah. And you want to know, it’s really interesting, because I watched this video earlier today to prepare for this and it was…

The actors themselves rewatched season four and there were reactions to it. And it was the Steve actor who was talking about that scene when they’re in the boat trying to find the gate and they all dive in one after the other. And he said, if you notice each of them dives in a way that represents their character. Steve takes his shirt off, athletic dive, just goes back like that. Nancy just goes charging right in and Steve, what the hell?

Speaker 1 (01:36:25.282)
rolls forward and going, Eddie, he kind of just does this weird kind of roll dive into the water. But if you watch it, they each do it in a way that kind of represents the characters. And that’s like, sorry, the writers, that was the directors told them to do, just come up with a way your character would do it. And so it’s just those little moments that you don’t realize when you’re watching, but then you reflect, that’s just genius. thought of that. And again, it’s like you said, just little characteristics. They don’t have to be verbal or too over the top.

just little subtle things that okay yeah that character would be doing that you know yeah and so back to this side of the needle for the characters there’s actually two new characters they’re just awful just i don’t who should we go for far i can’t remember his name the head of the basketball team yeah i know he is yeah now stranger things should have fleshed this guy out why he’s like the

But he’s so one dimensional. Yeah, that’s true. I’m a true American for American values. know, I’m going to get to say. I suppose you meant to represent your basic patriotic ticket. But yeah, maybe you should have been fleshed out just a little bit more to make you. I mean, I feel no empathy for him. Seeing him get torn in half at the end of season four is like. Yeah, you’re just like, yeah, that’s all right. At least.

One, I mean, just part of that, one part of me was hoping that Lucas would get through to him. Yeah. I thought that was going to happen there. Yeah. That maybe he would turn around and see Max up there and just realize, shit, what’s going on here? Like, which you think even at the lake, he would have just realized, you know, when the guy goes up and that surely this can’t be Eddie’s fault, but he still carries. It’s like, why do you still believe this? I think it’s just to

Yeah, for the sake of representing that. He’s mindset of yeah, that’s literally yeah, I think that is his purpose. mean, yeah, it’s good and all but it would have been nice to see him have a character arc because he is a minor antagonist. And the way that his is performed is like, you’d hold out some hope because he’s still a human being. It’s not hold out some hope for him to kind of like, switch and realize the reality of the situation. But no, he’s still an arrogant

Speaker 1 (01:38:49.506)
Dick. Yeah, no much else to say there. And the other one, and this is more annoying because he’s meant to be fun and lovable as Argyle and I just grew. And again, he could be fun and lovable, like there’s no he’s one dimensional as well. is he’s the goofy California stoner and that’s all we get out of him. Yes, of course. I mean. I arguably prefer him over the yeah.

But like, yeah, he’s just there for comedic purposes. He doesn’t do much apart from being a convenience. Yes. And it’s just like anything to do, you know, just a hint. Why is he such a stoner? Is it, you know, there should be reasons why he’s so into this way of life. Because he’s also shown to have like a mega spiritual side, which that’s not really. even a mixed race. You know, he’s meant to be a part of Native American as well. First Nations. Yeah.

Which could have led to some, there’s some interesting ways you could have taken that in Stranger Things as well. Yeah, I mean, I think it’s just more for the sake of, okay, we need a, we need an, you know, maybe for ethical, you know, ethnic, ethnic reasons, or we need someone of colour to broaden the colour spectrum more. And as well as it’s set in California, ergo, he must be a stoner. Right. And you just mentioned the dreaded C word about season four. California. Yeah. Whoops.

Yeah, well we have to address it. It’s just you could have cut 90 % of the California stuff out and it would have improved it, arguably. I mean, I don’t know what would have been done. mean, obviously it contributes to some sort of character growth for at least for Leaven because obviously Leaven becomes Joyce’s adoptive daughter and they go away from Hawkins just to be safe, which is fair and California is far enough away. But I think, like you said, there should have been less time there.

to contribute more to the story yeah don’t know what the bouncing off point would have been yeah but yeah i agree with you here’s a question like when they’re in california what do will mike and jonathan contribute to the story that’s the thing they are they the three of them are based jonathan especially was it was almost character assassination what they did to him from the start of season four i did not like him at the start season four

Speaker 1 (01:41:16.94)
he’s a stoner who doesn’t care anymore. And it’s it’s left at that. There’s no more to be. He said, he decided not to go and see Nancy. I was like, he’s not telling her about this and why it’s just like, it just can’t be bothered now. It’s like, happened to him? Why is he so jaded all of sudden? That could have been explained more again with like either subtle hints or flashbacks. If there was like some actual good motivation as to why he became that.

Because usually, mean, if you’re, I’m not speaking from experience, but if you’re like into recreational drug use, there’s usually a reason for either it’s just to like kind of chill you out. Maybe it’s just for the pure enjoyment or worst case scenario or circumstance, it’s a coping mechanism. Yeah. You’re escaping from something. Like the Cougar’s just shown maybe the trauma of the past three years has caught up on that. That would have made sense, or at least, but he’s just kind of there. He just.

He’s there because he can drive, basically. That’s all he does is drive the could have been more protective of Will, considering like the first season. He does. That is the only… You could have trimmed down California to the Will moments where he’s obviously struggling with the sexuality. It’s similar to the Robin thing, but it’s just not done anywhere near as well. Yeah, because I think you get the subtle hints just from like one or two scenes. Yeah.

I feel like there may be two suffer as at least in comparison to Robin’s story. Like obviously, yeah, you can feel what Will is feeling. You know that he, you know, he’s homosexual, you know, as is the actor as well. Cause I think this is also the coming out story for Will Byers actor. And of course, when the actor came out, his friends were not surprised, you know, maybe they could have done something similar with Will’s group. mean, yeah, imagine when you’re trying to come out.

especially during that time, especially your male friends, it can’t come out your mouth. You want to but you struggle and it feels like you’re tensing up. And that was portrayed quite well but they could have done, they probably could have explained explored that a little bit more. I’d say that there’s one really amazing, there’s one really, it’s when they’re in the car and he’s showing them the painting he made and it’s that look away he goes and again it’s just the

Speaker 1 (01:43:43.406)
You get everything that he’s feeling in that moment. He does the pain look away so well. It’s a difficult thing to pull off a really good in pain looking away convincingly as an actor. Yeah. But he pulls it off there. Definitely. And so that’s kind of anything else left to count. The soundtrack is again, it’s a it’s gone back like the soundtrack for season three. was a lot of 80 songs just pushed it. this time they’ve dialed it back nicely. I mean,

There’s two artists. Yeah, I’m just gonna say two artists got the boost of their careers out of this. Definitely. I mean, you have the Scorpions with. that’s season three, wasn’t it? Yeah. With this, it’s Kate Bush and Metallica got the biggest. Yeah. I mean, Kate Bush has been she must be fit by now because she’s been going up that damn hill since the 80s. Yes. But it’s like.

The way running up that hill is pretty cool because you first hear it’s, mean, I think it was popular at that time. I mean, I didn’t grow up in the eighties, so I don’t know how popular Kate Bush actually was. know her career wasn’t… Well, if I can recall, I think she did a comeback tour a few years ago. And just going by some of my Facebook feed and how excited a certain demographic were, I think she was…

Massive in the 80s. definitely. mean, massive enough for like, you know, teenagers to associate with because that was introduced as like sort of Max’s theme because she’s constantly listening to it as she’s like walking to school, dealing with what she’s dealing with. She’s having flashbacks of Billy. Then of course, her nurse starts bleeding and you don’t know at the time until you see it in more and more people. Obviously she’s affected by Vecna trying to use her as a sacrifice or conduit to open up the portals. But, you know, running up that hill becomes her theme.

And you hear it like once or twice just in the background. And then at the climax is when it really hits because when she is in the upside down traps, you know, essentially being preyed on by Vecna. Yeah. And it becomes her motivation song. Yeah, because she’s literally running away, which is also I think that’s got to be one of the themes of season four is running away and standing your ground. Definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:46:07.182)
Because you get that like with um Hopper, like he escapes the prison and they’re about to run away, says no we have to stand our ground against the Demogorgon. And Eddie at the end he says I didn’t run away this time. Which um, I know a lot of people are upset by Eddie’s death but at least they gave him a proper glorious death. He went out in style. Yeah I like, mean obviously I’ll probably be one of the few people, one of the people that, my heart it’s like almost everyone who loved him.

wanted him to survive even after the attack. We want him to be, much like Bob, somehow return. But we’re more accepting because that’s Eddie’s character arc. He finally makes his stand as the noble sacrifice, whereas Bob is the unwilling sacrifice. Bring us back Bob, I swear to God. Yeah. So yeah, it’s like…

He sacrifices himself for a town that hated him. That’s what Dusted points out. was that. And gotta say that for whom the bell tones. It’s Master Puppets. sorry, yes. Puppets. I’m not a massive Metallica head, but I do love Metallica. I know their songs well enough. Master Puppets is a very fitting theme considering the title.

you know and you have Vector behind the scenes just doing what he’s doing. the moment they gave Eddie with that guitar like in a hell dimension playing Master of Puppets like god this is just so perfect. Yeah. I mean as an actor when he saw that scene finally complete he must have just got I could just retire now with that my name. definitely because I think loads of people be they Eddie fans or not I mean Master of Puppets alone is by a very well loved band.

for a metal user, that just skyrocketed. Yeah. And if someone actually went and did the research on this, in the timeline of the show, Master of Puppets had only been released for four months. So this is even bigger testament to Eddie’s guitar skills. In the days before the internet where you could just find like the score or the tab, in four months he mastered Master of Puppets by ear. Good on him.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31.136)
he mastered that song perfectly. would have had to like listen to it on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, in between doing D &D club and drugs he somehow found the time to master like an epic guitar song. Yeah, definitely. And so yeah, it is such a good and it’s like a kind of great ending because they basically kind of lose which is… Yeah, it’s a or at very least a

It’s a moral victory for them. Yeah, moral victory or close defeats rather. But yeah, mean, the main cast survive, but with a lot of sacrifice. And a lot of scars to carry on. it is a Pyrrhic victory because even though it’s not a victory, know, it’s just a battle and a huge war. They pushed Vecna back hard enough, but they know he’s going to come back. Well, because…

basically Max does die and that’s that has won and he can now invade which is what the very last scene is basically upside down is coming and can I say two characters I really want to come back I really hope Murray comes back yeah that would be fun he just disappears at the end because yeah that’s true the helicopter flies over the gulag and

And also that Russian guard, and I can’t remember his name. I really hope he’s got a role to play. The one that helps. one who’s like, that helps Hopper. Yeah. I really want him to. And I would love to see Yuri again. He was a fun character, Yuri. Which one was Yuri? The pilot, the really dodgy Russian pilot. Yeah, he was. kept trying to stab them in the back constantly. And also, I’ve got to say, talking about heroic moments, it’s so great that it’s…

It’s Murray that gets to torch the Demogorgon in the Gulag. yeah. It is so fantastic that it’s him that gets that moment. Like a moment of sheer brave heroism, kind of action hero. The person you least expected it from. Yes, and that he gets when he uses his karate in the plane. He’s got so many great comedic moments that guy. And again they can continue like that if they are done well and they contribute to the story in the way that they do. yep so…

Speaker 1 (01:50:49.454)
Oh right, so that’s anything else to add to season four or shall we go to the rankings now? I think it’s just the way it left off with Maxine and Nokoma. Yeah, yeah, because 11 can’t sense her presence anywhere. Like she brings her back to life, but there’s a void when she tries to enter our minds. Yeah. So yeah, that’s the kind of cliffhanger. So I’m torn between what’s the second best season here. Season three is obviously the low point.

yeah and this was a return to form but because this season was so long the episodes were so bloody long that’s a drawback because i feel there’s a lot that could have it could have been trimmed significantly i think it was a case of one they probably wanted to make up for you know the season three but they also wanted to cram in all these ideas and make it an epic tale but they’re like you know like you said they drag on

And there’s like so many things happening on it once, is fair enough that you have three groups. have the teenagers and the adults all going on their own adventures. It’s a good enough storytelling method, I guess. But the drawback to something like that, again, in general with the stories, if you introduce too many characters, it drags it out. There’s too many points of interest for anyone to kind of focus on. And it becomes sort of this mush of

kind of, okay, I’ve lost my interest. There’s too much going on. It overloads your brain. And then there’s less focus on creating a solid story. And can I just add, although Bremer died, Matthew Modine has said, he’s still alive somewhere. And I don’t know if he’s, I don’t know. really hope not. Just, mean, cause another, another somehow they survived. It’s just too much. Yeah. think, mean, one thing I will

give credit to the somehow better survive thing is they were able to use him to kind of flesh out his character and 11 a lot more. that he’s trying to help 11 out even though his methods are completely unethical at times. know it’s like a contrast between him and the professor guy was really good. of course. But yeah, I don’t think he should be back for season five. I mean, I think I know they finished filming it and it’s just a case of them releasing it now.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14.582)
Yeah, which will be two weeks or a week or 10 days or something. That’s why we’re recording this right now to get on that gravy train for the heif. yeah. I don’t, I think maybe the actor said that just out of jest because I think he had a very obvious onscreen death. There is no coming back from that unless you are in for Palpatine. So I don’t think his character is coming back at all. I would hope

I know Maxine, she’s gonna be the driving force for a good portion of the story because she’s the one that’s in the coma. Well before we get on to previewing season 5, just our rankings, our final rankings. I’ll say season 1 and I thought about it, season 2 just cause it’s just more compact than season 4. Yeah. There’s probably more standout moments in season 4 but there’s so much… Yeah. I mean…

There’s so much that could have been trimmed out of season four. Definitely. There’s so much just… I think season four, when it worked, it worked. But I think they were trying for a lot of moments as opposed to actually… Having them organically kind of… For a season two like you said, that was… Whereas I’d say season three is a distant last, at the moment. There are good moments from season three and a lot of the shock factor is pretty good.

The storytelling was… Yeah. Yeah, there was. It was just that they front-loaded the mystery instead of letting it kind of gradually… And that just… There was no tension really. Good body horror. That’s a really amazing body horror. Just mixed in with, suddenly, Russians are here. Yeah. And the introduction of Robin, fantastic as well. Robin’s a fantastic Again, there’s this really good individual…

bits in season three, but it’s just not the glue isn’t there to kind of put it all together. Yeah. Yeah. And then like I said, season four does the Soviets correctly. mean, does them a way better. I think so. So yeah, think, yeah, I agree with you. Season two, second best and of course season one, because it’s the one that sets it all up. Yeah. So that’s, I don’t know, shall we look ahead to season five now? Hopefully this works. Technology. I am praying this works.

Speaker 1 (01:55:35.278)
That’s serious, because I do have the season 5 trailer ready to go. Have you watched it yet? I actually have not. that’s even better. So yeah, in total YouTube sellout style we are going to do a reaction video. How’s that now?

Speaker 1 (01:56:12.494)
I’m to lose it. Being stuck in here.

no end in sight.

Maybe tonight is our break. You find, Vekna, we end this once and for all. Together.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40.878)
This isn’t like one of your campaigns. You don’t get to write the ending. Not this time. He’s planning to end our world. And he’s not gonna stop. Until we’re drained of every last ounce of silvery.

Speaker 1 (01:57:32.824)
We stay true to ourselves. Stay true to our friends. Do it. No matter the cost.

Speaker 1 (01:57:47.758)
Speaker 1 (01:58:10.572)
last time.

Speaker 1 (01:58:29.742)
There you have it. like the bit where it showed the end for Netflix. That’s my favourite bit. The Netflix logo. Brings just a kissy there in the heart, it? Yeah, absolutely. Especially when it’s dark crystal. Oh, well, I do like Netflix, I’ve got to say. They do a lot of good, I think, in promoting for a world cinema and world TV series. But anyway, there we have not much given away at all.

very little. You definitely don’t just get to see a small squad of Demogorgon assault a military base. That was like, Okay, from what I know, I know that see the military base, that’s actually Hawkins is under barricade by the military because of what’s going on. Of course, yeah. They did actually reveal that and I do know they said it’s going to focus heavily on Will this season as well.

all that build up considering they couldn’t if they didn’t bother with that then season two’s will would have no meaning or resolution because as Vecna or Henry there says you’re going to help you one last time yes so he has some control over Will still yeah so there’s always going to he’s going to do a trap on the team so just using common sense it’s a finale one of the team’s going to die properly i think

Yeah.

I you’re gonna see that, that’s just… And it’s just which one, I can’t really say. There’s a few contenders who it could be. I It’s not gonna be one of the… I wouldn’t think it’d be one of the main ones. It’d be maybe someone like Jonathan or someone. Maybe. mean, it’s Because that would be impactful. That would be impactful enough for Will. Yeah, But not enough to piss off like…

Speaker 1 (02:00:27.086)
loyal fans that they killed off a favorite. Yeah, well, again, it depends. It depends on the execution. Yeah. If they kill off a main character in such a way where it doesn’t feel forced, or it feels like, you know, it’s just slumped in there for the sake of the story, that’s going to piss off a lot of fans. Whereas, it’s done in such a way where it contributes, where it generally feels like, regardless of how predictable it be, that’s its own thing, but

If it generally feels like there is no other choice, it has to be this character specific. And it’s done in such a way where fans will, yeah, they’ll be annoyed, wee bit pissed, but more so at the fact, you know, the character’s dying. kind of like in a similar sense to Eddie, like if it feels right, it’ll make this character, know, the audience, it’s kind of sad or, but not resentful.

It’ll make them love the character more. Yeah. For their sacrifice. Like I see, out of the wider group, my pick would be Jonathan. If they’re going for someone in the immediate group, I would say Lucas probably would be my pick. If they were. But you have, there’s an issue if it Lucas. Yes, there is. And how to portray that would be

they could obviously do Luke. mean if it’s done in a brave, heroic way. Again, if it’s done right. If it’s done but… the character. But yeah, I’m just going off like conventional, like season finales. There’s going to be someone die because that then increases the stake for the ends because then you’re thinking, well, who else could? Hopper? Crocod. He’s already had a death, so…

Joyce? No, I can’t see them doing that. No, I mean, I suppose… Because again, you’ve also got to think about the actor who’s playing them as well. Would you be willing to kill off one owner either and would she be okay? Well, I would say Jonathan’s like a contender for me because… Yeah, because he’s like the male role model for Will for most of his life. Yeah, and he’s kind of been absent the past while. Yeah, additionally, it has to be someone

Speaker 1 (02:02:51.534)
that you might have alluded to before, who acts as a catalyst for Will. Yeah. I don’t think it’s one where they step in to pull Will out. Yeah. Or like at the very end of they make the sacrifice. It has to be maybe midway or probably like a third of the way. They sacrifice Will. It’s a hypothesis. It’s like Eleven has to make a decision and it ultimately results in Jonathan’s

And then Will is very tempted by Vecna then what he has to offer. Because you know, Eleven promised to always protect them and then in one moment she, as he sees it, she didn’t. Yeah, mean, Vecna’s he’s shown to be very intelligent, very manipulative. Yes. Very aware of what goes on. knows he can manipulate Will, so that would be if he could set up Jonathan’s death in such a way he’s got the ultimate leverage over him then.

And course, in this case, with Will, who doesn’t have any powers, can still be used and maybe used as his conduit. He will definitely be a playing card to get to 11. Yeah. And obviously from that, you’ll always see 11’s powers have really come along. The first thing I thought Essentially Wonder Woman now. The first thing I thought was like, she’s a Jedi or a Force user. Force Jump. Yeah, or a Wonder Woman jump or whatever you want to call it.

Like I said, there’s no, like I’m also going to say they have no, there’s nothing from the finale in that trailer, I guarantee you. There’s no, all, everything you see in that trailer is from the first batch of episodes we’re going to see. Cause they won’t play their hand that early at all. I know modern trailers tend to give away the ending, but I think they’re smarter than this with this one. I mean, something this big.

You do not want to give the ending away to something that caught my eyes, like right out the gates when the trailer, aside from the Hawkins with the lightning in the background, where it shifts to you hear Vecna speaking. First thing you see in the foreground, I thought was Vecna. looked very much like him. And then you kind of see him appear in the background. like, is the thing in the front of Devogorgan or is that like another body of Vecna? Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10.42)
I can answer that one because they have put up the first five minutes of the new season online just yesterday. Okay. There’s nothing incredible revealed. It’s basically it’s a flashback to season one. is hiding in his hideout. The demogorgon grabs him, brings him to Vecna’s lair where he puts the tube in his mouth and he just says, I’ve got such big plans for you. There’s something along those lines. So. Okay. It’s this, it’s a bit of retconning that this was what was going on all along, obviously. Yeah.

And again, like when it comes to retcon stuff like that, if it’s done right and you make it fit as opposed to jamming it together. Yes, which Star Trek’s very guilty of that at times because of all the timeline confusion they go through. As well as different writers. Yes, but there’s not much, but that’s my only, there’s going to be a death and I would go, I’m going with Jonathan, it’s going to die. Yeah, I’d say that’s a possibility as well.

That’s just looking at it logically, like who could they sacrifice to have an impact on the characters and Jonathan just seems like… I have a feeling it’s… I don’t think it’s going to be one of the kids. I mean… I don’t think they could do that. Right. I just don’t think… If it was though, if they do pull that rabbit out, I would… I think Lucas would be one. What if it was Steve? I see Steve or Jonathan would be good contender, but I think Jonathan, cause that impact will… Yes, more directly. …directly then.

Right then again it could be yeah it won’t impact will. What if a character’s death impacts the person we don’t think it will? I don’t know. It not have the same effect. is real specular. I’m just going like what’s the obvious choices that you would do as a writer? Yeah. Like I would do. I just think Jonathan stands out because his character just vanished a bit last year. Last season. That’s true. Four years ago last season. Bloody hell. The only other thing I can think of is there’s a character that fits the bill.

that I had the rest of thinking of and potentially don’t think could be a red herring. Yeah. Well, the thing is, it’s not this is just me going off from what I think is going to happen. There’s nothing hinted at, isn’t it? There’s not much hinted at in the trailer. Yeah, yeah. I mean, other than it’s a final, but it’s good to see D &D is being used again for the planning there. I quite like that. I of smiled when Eleven said that. It’s not one of your campaigns. Yeah, you can’t just write the end user, but

Speaker 1 (02:07:36.92)
hopefully his comeback is what DM ever writes the end of their campaigns properly. No, as you know, as a DM, that’s basically you are dancing for delight for days if your players actually stick to the script. Like any DM would be, that’d be like a dream session, but we all know never ever happens. I’ve been a DM and I’ve like been almost spelling out this week.

They all go, no, over here, over here. That’s where we’re going. I’ve always been advised to, you know, off topic, but related topic, you’re DM, never railroad your party. And if there’s something you want to indicate, you do you point towards them? I think I’ve tried this. I’m not particularly good at it. But something that Matt Mercer has said is if there’s something that you want your party to discover, because it’s part of the story, you leave little notes or you suggest.

It’s like, yeah, even if they get a low perception check or whatever, like your eyes don’t see much, but they do list over to this object over here. And that kind of gets it going without railroading them. And in my case, it’s just. hope cause Will is a DM. like his response to 11 should be like what DM ever writes the ending properly. That should be the classic comeback. Yeah. I don’t think it’s going to be the line, but yeah, I agree.

You know, they could surprise us. Like if they do that and say, you really get this D &D malarkey completely. You understand the pain of any DM that’s carefully written for hours. Then what, how could you, what to do? I mean, I think another good response is like what party does what they’re expected to do. Yeah. What party ever goes right. Yeah.

I hope all he says is we’re never splitting this party. You’ve got to have some lines like that. God. Or we will share the… Well, sharing the loot doesn’t apply but something like that. We’re not splitting the party. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately you can’t use ICAST Fireball. Unless they find a way to do that, which would be… If it’s done right would be hilarious.

Speaker 1 (02:09:50.798)
It seems like it because remember you saw 11 and there’s that ring that goes out. Well additionally that was the method for the demogorgon anything from the upside down even Vector. Fire. so you know that might be a good line if someone says she’s going to do fireball here guys run for cover. There’s so many lines you just go yes. Or just just a simple eye cast fireball. Yes. Yeah but I don’t know what else we can glean from that trailer there’s not much.

They’re wisely playing it close to their chest too. Which is good. I mean, I see a lot of guns. I suppose there’s going to be a lot of guns in the film. Well, and I’m glad like there’s lots of demagoguards and like usually be all the gun for more, but at least there’s a reason is that this dimension is now invading. Yeah, exactly. And again, the whole buildup as well, the kids surmise in season two or at least in season four or season three. Yeah. Season three and season four.

They’re like, Oh, the Demogorgon is the foot soldier and Vecna is the five star general for the mind flayer. course they were partially right. Just the wrong order, but yeah, it’s just, and seeing more, mean, one Demogorgon enough was a threat. And this is what I think where a lot, good portion of TV series seasons and franchises, movies kind of mess up is if one thing is very dangerous and a huge threat, obviously a multiple of them will be as well.

But it also follows the rule of shinobi in old Japanese films. And that’s where if you have Bruce Lee fighting off a ninja, it’s a, it’s a tough fight. If you have Bruce Lee fight off multiple ninja, it’s going to be an easy fight. Same thing applies to multiple demogorgons despite their threat level. However, the facts that, you know, if it’s done right and it’s not like an army, it’s like sporadic skirmishes, it’s still a huge threat.

Which leads me, the best homage they could do is to do some aliens references. Cause it’s now custom made for that, there’s hundreds of them. So let’s have some, just throw in some nice, cause there was some alien references in the first. So make sense. Surely this time they can go for the aliens. They’re battling multitudes of them. there’s a game over. It would be nice. It’s a question of like how far can I get stretched without moving it? It’s like the whole, the weeping angels thing as well.

Speaker 1 (02:12:15.026)
There’s also overuse. Yes, because you don’t want to get to a Daleks and Manhattan level. I mean, yes. The Daleks are making cups of tea for people. What’s happened? That did make me giggle. It was funny, but at the same time you’re going, these are meant to be like genocidal psychopaths. you care for some tea? Yes, I’m not going to attempt a Dalek voice. I can only do a handful of accents and that sadly is not one of them.

drop and then they’ll probably have another preview so we could get a good bit out of that. Safest bet is probably to watch it all in one go because it depends on our availability when we’re actually able to watch. So New Year’s Day when we’re all hung over might be interesting. Yeah I think a good time prior to doing this. Any other predictions for season five other than

You’re hoping for no somehow they survived moments.

Yeah, because she’s been in the press promotion, so she’s definitely got to be involved. either she’s got to use. Yeah. And the other thing I might predict is I think Mike is more powerful than we realize. I think he’s got powers. OK, I think I’ve got a feeling that either he’s been definitely not inherent, but something that’s gained through his time in the upside down. And then maybe he’s kind of gained sort of dark powers from Vekna and he uses it against him in the end.

Cause one thing that is not explained at all is how, I mean, how do the kids, I mean, the, kids in the, that the Brenner experimented on, they were forced to have those powers because Vecna or Henry Creel was like the original, think, from what I understand, how did Vecna get those powers to begin with? How are they acquired?

Speaker 1 (02:14:14.126)
Yeah, that’s what I like. It’s that’s not really explained and I would prefer that than it’s selected bloodlines like Star Wars does. I’d rather it just be it’s something you can it’s a gift you’re just born with somehow. But no, what’s it gonna say? Yeah, I think. Right, Will, Will’s the one. Will, he’s going to be he’s got I think he’s got some latent powers that he’s not unlocked. Yeah, I’d say either latent powers or inherited from his time being

you know, from the upside down. cause it’s very much hinted at, that’s that Vecna specifically chose him, that it wasn’t just an accident he ended up there. Which probably does indicate to him having latent unlocked powers, like you said, as opposed to inherent. That or he sensed something in Will and gave him something that would awaken said powers, which are still on a delayed timer.

Yeah, which unfortunately means that suddenly it could become all powerful and save the day. Which is another way it could, but again we’re speculating here. Yeah, mean again if it’s done right it would be brilliant. If it’s kind of forced and he becomes like, you know, it’s like conveniently he has powers that can rival vectors. It’s not just 11, it’s will as well. It depends on how it’s done. I don’t think he should be as, if he does have powers, I don’t think he

He should be as powerful as, mean something about the Hawkins kids, they all have different abilities. Yes. So I do appreciate that. there’s maybe, maybe he’s got firepower and he can do fireballs. It’d be so funny if he turns out, because he’s well wise, if he turns out to be an actual mage. Yeah. plays a wizard. So ergo. And essentially Liches, as I mentioned before,

Yeah. Our undead wizards, magic casters. So there you go. There we go. So just to let everyone know, now that we’ve said all this, it’s definitely going to happen. You can bet your mortgage on it and don’t blame us if you lose all your possessions in the process. Yeah. Just throw that warning out as well. All proceedings go direct to us and are non-refundable. Yes, completely non-refundable. No receipts given either. Yes, you can gamble on this with us and you’re guaranteed to get zero in return of us.

Speaker 1 (02:16:37.442)
What money? We don’t owe you any money. It’s all crypto now. That’s a fake Caribbean island in the back. I know I live on an island, that’s close enough. What do mean I sold a house for Bitcoin? Or I bought a house for Bitcoin? No, those Bitcoins are just resting in my account. on. So financial corruption aside, thanks everyone. If you’ve listened to all of this, let us know. Please let us know.

If you actually sat and listened to two and a half hours of us talking. If he did, good on you. tip my hat. He literally tips his hat and he’s got a drinking horn as well. He would do a heroic Viking toast if he could. It’s back in the kitchen. I do have a blowing horn but I can’t really do it all that well. Well the horn of truth like from… Have you seen Star Trek Lord X yet? Oh we have to do that.

yes, so there we go. We’ve got our own horn of truth on this. I’m not going to blow it because my wife is upstairs asleep. Okay, and yep, we definitely don’t awake. That’s one force we don’t awaken. No, seriously, Mel is the sweetest person. If you listen back to this, Mel, please don’t come after me for saying that. I’ll have no fear like a pregnant woman. Yes.

All right, but thanks. If you have listened to this and wherever you in the world, you are listening to this, please get in touch with us. We would love to know where you are all listening to us from and more of why you’re listening to us. was about to why. Yes, you’ve listened to me and Ciaran go two and a half hours on Stranger Things. So we would love to know what on earth inclined you to do that on this whenever you’ve listened to this.

there’s all these experts talking about these two guys from the Isle of Lewis. They’re the ones that’ll… They’ve got the inside knowledge that I need. Two random bullshit artists. Yes. That’s more to our taste. Yes, but thanks everyone for listening and tuning in and I’ll be seeing you very soon and let’s see how our predictions go. All right. Goodnight everyone. Thanks a lot. Goodnight. Stop. It’s not stopping.

Speaker 1 (02:18:53.482)
Smell on wave volume. Smell on wave volume. just… Well, last shot. Right, that’ll stop it.